ūüĆą LGBT+ OCs discussion thread

Posted 4 months, 5 days ago (Edited 3 months, 11 days ago) by Judas-la-Carotte

Hi! Following some discussion in the "TH pet peeves" thread, I've decided to create a discussion thread specifically dedicated to discussion around LGBT+ OCs. This is not a "show me..." thread (I'm sure there's plenty of these in Character Discussion already), it's a thread where you can share your thoughts or ask for advice!

Share your thoughts: Ramble about your experience with LGBT+ OCs, share some tropes you like/dislike, give ideas and tips to other OCs creators!

Ask for advice: Share your character ideas or profiles and ask for feedback! Or just ask a more specific question about something you're unsure about!

I hope this kind of thread is allowed and that you will like it! Tell me if anything needs to be added in the OP. Have fun, and please keep things civil ‚ô•

Caine

Beefy I'm super happy to hear that!! I'm always a sucker for learning more about lore and since I sort of went pretty hardcore with Sinfonia and the amount of lore and in-world history I put into it, I figured short stories would be the perfect way for me to talk more about stuff in a place where people can find it AND where it feels more relevant to the game itself! 

circlejourney I think you're perfectly right! I feel like all I ever see are discussions surrounding big names/companies or people who go out of their way to advertise their content as representation, and it's easy to forget the standards aren't the same for every piece of media out there. Especially considering how easily I get anxious over Discourse it's just... so easy to forget these things are so heavily tied around their own specific contexts and advertisement. 

That's also a good point too! I don't think if there is a natural sounding way for him to mention those sort of things since he isn't a major character by any means (and actually has his own bigger story I'm eventually going to write out), but I think I can still definitely challenge myself to give it a shot & if nothing else I can keep this in mind in the short story I figured I could write as additional lore. 

circlejourney

Caine I feel your fears about the Discourse, haha. Honestly, I would have a lot of trouble looking at a work by an indie creator who is themself LGBT+ and who clearly cares about the issue, and thinking, "this doesn't count." Especially if it's a side character who isn't even in focus long enough for many of their other personal details to be disclosed, let alone a fact they guard so closely.

But I think the short tie-in story is a fantastic idea. Would it be accessible alongside the main game or something you'd publish independently? I'm totally thinking of doing the same--developing side characters in tie-ins--myself!

Caine

circlejourney I figured I'd make them unlockable in-game! Or with my skills it'd basically be getting passwords for password locked document files whenever you progress in the game, so when you finish the game you have passwords for all the files, with no extra effort needed to get them. I remember a game named DELETE do something similar with having some files behind password protection and only by doing things in-game you'd get those passwords. It definitely works better as a curiosity in games where you actually have to Do something to get them like go to right place or talk to a right person, but I still personally love knowing I have Unlocked Extra Material even if it's just progress related. 

TheStrayCat

I would like some opinions on a situation that made me feel kinda weird and maybe some stranger's would have something to add or share. 

I'm a gay guy (technically demisexual but I've only been attracted to men so I default to that for the most part). And in a server I'm on, someone joined tonight and is super gushing over one of their characters. It's an RP server, this sort of behaviour is normal, but they kept over and over referring to their OC as a twink. 

Now, I'm familiar with this term, and would be considered one, but have never called myself that. This person doesn't know me either and wouldn't know what I look like physically. 

But they kept over and over just "look at this twink" and "my little twink lmao" to the point I started to feel they were over focused on that part of their character. To me I feel like it was something they were over obsessed with, like they couldn't stop having to point it out. I know it's not an offensive term but I've never seen it used so much, let alone all at one time. It makes me very uncomfortable to be around this person. 

What do you guys think? Do they sound like they're too focused on their OC being a twink or am I just a paranoid old man who needs to chill? Either way I'm going to be keeping my distance from them for now, as I don't feel great around them, but I hope to be better with them in the future ! 

Caine

TheStrayCat I personally don't see much of an issue it? But mostly because I most Definitely am a twink and as such tend to sometimes be all affectionately "look at this idiot twink" about my own characters as well, and I know a lot of my mlm friends do the same with their OCs without really thinking other people might find it weird or uncomfortable? And for a lot of LGBT+ folks themselves constantly bringing up the LGBT+ identity (whatever they might be) of their character is related to their own pride, so if they don't use a slur term or something I usually just let it slide, even if they might come across as a little obnoxious or overbearing to me personally. Especially if the person is young I can totally understand why they'd feel like this part of the character's identity, as it's just... something young people tend to do, in general. 

At the end of the day I don't think there is... awfully much you can do about it aside from maybe avoiding the person, which it seems you're already doing? And I mean of course you can also tell that person it's making you as a gay man a tad uncomfortable, but it might result in a conflict situation I know I personally would rather just avoid. 

Zeetheus

123penguin64 Oof... that's a tough one, but I'll do my best! Spoilering for length tbh.

EDIT: Accidental deletion, oh no! The post I responded to was asking about potential problems concerning a trans girl character being transported to a 'transformation world' where things have changed drastically so that she 'has always been cis' in this new world, but still has memories of the original world (?).

First off - a caveat that I am not trans. I am cis, but I'm very attentive when it comes to trans issues, and have done my best to hear many different perspectives from trans folks. If that itself is not 'good enough' that's entirely fair, I'll gladly let trans people have the last word here. I'd just rather not have to let trans folks rehash difficult things for randoms on the internet.

One thing concerning me is that the gender of this trans person from the 'past world' is not clear, but I'm going to assume this character is a trans girl in the past world.

The main thing that bugs me right away is... well, I'm not sure what the goal of this "transformation world" is supposed to be. Did it come about in order to create this type of story situation? Or is this story situation - a trans character "becoming cis" - just a side effect, and it's actually exploring something else in the story, with these drastic transformations? Is she the only one who gets (for lack of a better term) "genderbent" or "cis-swapped"? If no one else has been, what does this say about the transformations that do happen? I think that you should think about this a little.

Because... the 'end goal' for many trans people, is not necessarily to "become cis" via their transition. The main goal in transitioning is for the trans person to become comfortable in their gender and gender presentation, so that the effects of dysphoria (physical, mental, social, etc.) are lessened. A world/story where a trans girl travels to a transformation world and "becomes cis" is kind of a can of worms, because... that's already what many cis people assume that trans people want out of their transition.

Perhaps there are things about being 'a cis girl' that this trans girl was not interested in, or changes that she's not entirely content with. Certainly she doesn't have to deal with being misgendered as harshly, or confront certain types of dysphoria anymore, depending on what kinds of dysphoria she had. But remember - she's in an entirely different body now! Perhaps she's much shorter, or doesn't like her new hair.

I'm not suggesting this out of a 'trans people must always suffer dysphoria' though, it's more or less that someone suddenly changing into an entirely new body is... going to have a number of issues, depending on how drastic the changes are. There are things about my own body that I'm not entirely content with, but at least I am familiar with them, you know? Someone who starts as a trans girl, and then changes dramatically one day to become 'someone who meets the societal standards of how a cis girl should be/look/present' is going to deal with a lot, even if there are a number of changes that she finds positive. While horomone replacement therapy can be painstakingly gradual, that can also be a positive, as it allows the trans person to gauge how fast or how much they want their body to change, even if it takes time. Perhaps this character is overall happy, but still a little frustrated that, in "becoming cis," the control over her transition was taken away from her.

That said, there are trans people who do desire something along the lines of (what I still dread to refer as) "becoming cis" as in, having bottom surgery, horomone replacement therapy, and cosmetic surgeries such as facial feminization. I don't think it's a bad thing for this character to have desired all of those things, if she did. However, I think it should be handled carefully, because while it is wonderful for trans people to be able to 'achieve' the aspects of their appearance or gender presentation that they want... be wary of casting it as a one-size-fits-all. Not every trans person has those goals in mind.

Finally, another can of worms that is often brought up is "would this character then still call herself trans?" From hearing many other trans people, the answer I hear is usually yes. Being trans is a big part of life for many trans folks, and giving it up just because you have "become cis" is usually quite... disingenuous. Yes, there are trans people too who decline to call themselves trans once they have 'achieved' their desired gender/presentation... but they are not a majority, and if I may be honest... aren't usually supportive of their trans siblings.

People are complicated, and have intricate, differing perspectives. As long as you are following 'the story of this trans girl' and not, say, 'the story/wish fulfillment of every trans girl, told through this trans girl' I think you'll be alright. Be wary of tokenizing, but don't forget to let her be a person too.

123penguin64

Zeetheus
Spoiler for length too ^^ also i accidentally deleted my initial post smh

RIGHT YEAH I should've made things a little clearer ^^
Yes, in the  past world she was a trans woman. This kind of new world is like a  "second chance" and these characters are living in a place where they  can do things all over again except things have gone to their ideals  -The things that made them so unhappy have changed/been removed so that  it's not making them unhappy anymore. (essentially) The details of this  place are still a little hazy to me too as it's a WIP but it hasn't been created for this particular story situation (if that makes sense ?) I  haven't gone into much detail in the initial post but when she realises  that she's in an entirely different body it's extremely jarring  and it takes a while for the shock of it to wear off and there are a  lot of trials and tribulations she goes through in regards to this (and  many other things. The story isn't about her being trans, it's a story about a character who's trans)

That  being said, I've read over your reply a couple of times and I think you bring up some valid points I should consider and think over more! Thank you very much for  your reply! ^^  

circlejourney

Oh, good timing, I forgot this thread existed for a moment, but I've been needing it. I've been pondering this plotline for a while and trying to figure out if it's fine or problematic in a way I'm not picking up on. I figure more eyes is better. Let me know if you see any transmisogynistic tropes in this storyline:


  • My story has a matriarchal society where hereditary seats of power pass strictly from mother to eldest eligible daughter. If the ruler has no daughter, she could name an heir from among her known relatives.
  • Cotaria is the closeted trans daughter of the Countess of Clubs. When her mother abdicated, Cotaria was passed over for the position because she still didn't know she was a woman by then, and her mom bequeathed the throne to Cotaria's *cousin (typoed as niece before), Caeli. She vanished from the court, and several years later, came out as a woman and married a noble of a different house.
  • Now Cotaria is considered, by law, to be a more legitimate heir than Caeli, since she is now legally her mom's eldest daughter. She has a biological daughter with her wife and this is a ¬†foundational point of a power struggle that soon ensues.
Zeetheus

circlejourney I'm not qualified to speak from experience as I'm not a trans woman, but I don't see any major issues from your description alone?

Since this deals with the qualification of gender as the key to being counted a rightful successor, it can really depend on... how the narrative treats her, and whether her niece is seen as having more 'legitimacy' in the sense of her niece being cis (or otherwise knowingly and openly a woman when the opportunity arose.) Whether the opposition uses transmisogynistic arguments or not is not necessarily the problem, if Cotaria is given her own legitimacy by the narrative, and/or, how things are worded and discussed.

For example, placing the onus on Cotaria to 'prove' to the court that she ~has transitioned enough~ to be considered a woman in order to be qualified, would be kind of sketchy, if the narrative/opposition is particularly transmisogynistic. Though generally it's this kind of situation I don't feel personally qualified to tackle, especially if this storyline is a major part of the overall plot.

However, the current court could just as easily try to argue that Cotaria did not have the qualifications when the seat was abdicated, and it's not her niece's obligation to secede her position to her aunt out of hindsight, unless her niece is explicitly ruling as a placeholder. While that acknowledges that Cotaria (wasn't/wasn't aware that she was) a woman at that particular time, it doesn't undermine her current womanhood. It would be more akin to Cotaria simply and unknowingly missing her chance, than out of any malice/misunderstanding over her identity now.

Those are only my own thoughts though. If anyone else wants to chime in, that would be helpful.

circlejourney

Thank you Zeetheus, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts!

This has helped me figure out what was bugging me: I don't feel particularly qualified to write this story, especially about Cotaria "not knowing she was a woman" because it seems like a very personal experience and not my story to tell? I mean I've experienced a similar thing as a nb person, but I don't want to presume that I know this specific experience, in the context of being a trans woman, well enough to write about it.

I think the latter description is closer to what I'm trying to convey. The court generally has fairly progressive views on trans people and hopefully I'm able to express that she's definitely a legitimate heiress, and the fact she's been denied the position have more to do with the current ruler's unwillingness to relinquish her position.

husbrandos

heya, i'm seeking some advice on a character with a problem.. KINDA similar to zeetheus' on the gender thing? it's been bugging me for a while and i'm so glad i finally found a thread to ask about it. put under spoiler since.. vague description of female parts?

i have a character who was originally a cis woman in their universe, but then went into hiding so they pretty much reset their mind? when they woke up as their new self, without any prior memories, this new self identified as male. his body has female organs, but outwardly he's virtually indistinguishable from a cis man. he dresses as male, uses a male name + pronouns, etc.

i'm unsure if it would be okay for me to call him a trans male? the story takes place in modern times, gnc identities exist in my world, but i'm just.. at a loss for what to do w/ him?

if it helps here's how he looks: https://toyhou.se/662723.abraham#9876728

any and all help is appreciated!!

dogstarlite

husbrandos Speaking as a trans man, I find the idea of a cis person "becoming" trans due to a memory wipe... a little uncomfortable? Gender is fluid and all and can absolutely change, but something about that specific circumstance rings a little weird to me personally! Here's some things you might want to consider:

Perhaps Abraham has always been trans even while he lived as a woman. It's possible he was afraid of coming out or trying to really explore his identity because of the society, the people he's around and worry about what they'd think, or simply... maybe he didn't know about anything regarding gender so it was just something he knew was weird but couldn't quite explain why. It's different for every trans person of course, but gender identities can be extremely confusing. (I myself went through about a year of self-reflection and experimenting with different labels and pronouns before I realized I'm a man.)

So with that all in mind, I feel like a memory reset would take away those fears and uncertainties and maybe this "new" Abraham finds it easier to grasp the concept of his gender differing from his body.

However you take his story, I think it's A-okay to call him trans if that's what he would label himself as too! Good luck!

lilpeepers-

i have a LOT of lgbt+ identifying OCs. i used to ID as transmasc, and used them as a way to cope with dysphoria. they're fun to write, but i'd have to say a trope i find all too often is the soft transmasc and/or gay male character. they're usually incredibly short, pale, pastel colors, freckles, s-s-s-stutter, bonus points if they don't know anything about s/e/x. it seems that's what most people think that gay/trans men are, just some soft, pastel loving child. it's kinda... stereotyping i guessu?