I have to agree with the above. While I see almost everything else as valid, the ‘they’re copying my color pallets’ bit is a little ridiculous. Hand picked or not color pallets are bound to collide with every artist. Colors aren’t owned nor is any one pallet entirely unique.
Please do not harass this user (or anyone else involved), slander them, or witch hunt. This is a PSA so that people are made aware of this user’s behaviour and actions and can make an informed decision on avoiding business with this user.
Who: Vestigance (DA) |@vestigance (TH)
What: Continual harassment of multiple users
When: March 2019 - Present
Resolved: No
Personal Message: Hello I’m Noriben! I’m posting this PSA to raise awareness about a user called Vestigance who has been harassing artists. I was harassed by her and her group on April 7, 2019 and this PSA includes testimony by myself and other afflicted artists.
UPDATED: 01/07! (Sorry for the delayed update from December 30)
Please scroll below for details! We are open to host additional testimonies if you found yourself harassed by this user and her circle. Please contact me and let me know if you want to remain anonymous for safety reasons. Thank you!
▌Noriben: April 2019
I experienced the harassment when Vestigance contacted me on April 7, 2019. She accused me of heavily referencing an adoptable that belonged to her friend for my own adopt, and demanded that I change my design or she would otherwise inform all my buyers that I was copying.
► My first exchange with Vestigance
► My second exchange with Vestigance
Note: Dissatisfied with my response and attempt at resolution, Vestigance changed her accusations to tracing where she said the lines match too much.
The tracing “proof”:
*the girl with the lighter pink hair is my work
► My exchange with Vestigance’s friend asking me to give in
The moment I defended myself and refused their demands, they began to contact my clients to tell them that I was referencing popular adopts and that I was also a tracer.
► My Adopt Buyer contacting me
► Another exchange with my Adopt Buyer
Note: Take notice that the copy-pasted message is the same as the note with the tracing accusation. This shows that Vestigance sometimes uses alt accounts to contact people.
I was overwhelmed by the active slandering so I decided to publicly address the matter with a DeviantArt journal entry on April 10, 2019.
A comment from the journal proving that Vestigance is contacting my past clients:
The moment I posted the journal, people approached me privately about similar experiences they have had with Vestigance. I found out that it was not the first time Vestigance had harassed others. There were previous cases of her threatening smaller artists with accusations of heavy referencing and tracing, with further threats of making PSAs in case said artists refused to comply. Unfortunately, not all of them are willing to speak up publicly as they fear the consequences that Vestigance threatened them with.
► The person who owned the adopt I was accused of copying eventually contacted me
Note: The owner who was said to be Vestigance’s friend admitted they hadn’t wanted this situation to happen, but Vestigance didn’t listen to them when they had discussed the matter.
I have personally spoken to Yukibuns, the creator of the adopt I was accused of copying, and she was saddened by the situation that was happening. She gave Vestigance a warning and a 6-month ban so I decided to not pursue the matter any further back then. Vestigance and her group of friends seemingly backed off when the mass majority chose to support me on my journal.
While I understand that my case occurred some months ago, I believe that it is still relevant to share as I've heard from people that Vestigance is still presently going out of her way to harass others in the same or similar manner. This kind of relentless behaviour is a threat to vulnerable artists who are new to this community and have little to no support and aren’t able to defend themselves. At that time, if my older sister wasn’t there to be my moral support, I wouldn’t have had the bravery to speak up in public and have simply deleted my own work instead. So because of my personal experience, I find it very necessary to let people know that this type of cyberbullying is happening and it can be and is a serious issue.
If you ever encountered this user or anyone who’s bringing your art down with unsubstantiated claims, don’t let them scare you.
▌Shrio-nii: March 2019 - ???
On April 11, 2019, I saw a journal by Noriben asking people if she was possibly tracing/heavily referencing an adopt. After reading the whole thing, I was reminded of my own experience with Vestigance and noted Noriben to ask if it was who I think it was. Noriben confirmed that it was indeed Vestigance who had accused her of heavily tracing and referencing an adopt. Due to the realization that Vestigance was harassing not just me but others as well, I decided to add my own experience with Vestigance to this PSA. My experience took place about a month before Noriben’s situation.
On March 15, 2019, I was alerted by one of my friends that Vestigance planned to launch a PSA against me with the claim that I was ripping off palettes from yukibuns’ designs. She was intending to use a custom design of mine as proof of her claim, which is shown below, with my design on the left, and yukibuns’ design on the right:
Granted, I can see some similarities- but here’s the crux of the matter: it was a custom design. I was following what was ordered by my commissioner. I had little input to give of my own as it was a custom order and I tried to fulfill my customer’s order to their desires and expectations. Additionally, the design’s (both, to be fair) theme, concept, and palette are very common, and it is not unheard of to find similar designs due to the popularity of the general idea(s) as a result.
► Client’s Custom Form
Note: This is the customer’s form given to me upon ordering to provide proof that the design wasn’t intentionally meant to copy yuki’s design.
The situation left me feeling unhappy and anxious, but I was reassured due to my valid proof that it was a custom and the design wasn’t intentionally made to copy the adopt by yukibuns.
However, a day later, I was informed by the same person that Vestigance and her circle had been comparing more of my personal designs and adoptables with designs by yukibuns and claiming that I was color picking from her.
► Vestigance accusing me
Note: This is a private conversation between Vestigance and Misohungry, prior to Misohungry asking for my side of the story and changing her perspective on the situation due to hearing me out. To get further context regarding Misohungry’s POV please read her comment in the thread.
Below are screenshots I was given of the designs that were compared, taken from this conversation:
You are free to judge for yourself, but I wish to inform everyone that I hand-pick the colors for my designs and adopts from scratch. On top of that, I enjoy the color combo of black, white, and gold, so it often shows up in my designs. I’m also heavily biased towards certain singular colors such as green and blue. All of these colors I have mentioned are common choices in palettes, and certainly appear on a lot of casual-themed adopts.
While hearing what Vestigance and her friends were doing was making me more anxious, I did my best to remain calm and confident that I can defend myself if a PSA should happen.
► My Exchange with Vestigance
Note: On March 17, 2019, I received a message by Vestigance on Toyhouse: (I am leaving out the user’s name that was involved with the custom)
The message brought greater stress and anxiety to me but I took some time to calm down and respond in a respectful and responsible manner while explaining my side. I admitted the obvious: Yes, I was pretty inspired by yuki, and have worked hard since then to develop my own path and grow in a different direction. I admit (again) that I can see the similarities in the two designs but as mentioned, I had received a custom order and showed Vestigance logs of the conversation and process for the commission while also apologizing to her a lot concerning the matter.
► My reply to her in the form of a stash submission
Note: I’ve left out some information and names that are unrelated to the main issue of the PSA.
I never received a reply or confirmation from Vestigance that the issue was resolved after my response to her which left me feeling frustrated and confused. The last thing I heard about the issue was months later from an acquaintance who told me that Vestigance and her circle had actually marked the issue as resolved without informing me, while still planning to keep an eye on me, which can be seen in Misohungry’s screenshots.
One thing that did unsettle me in Vestigance’s message was her threat of copying one of my most treasured characters. It was later confirmed to be an actual threat from MisoHungry’s dms with her (“I heavily implied I could return the favor.”), which I believe does not make her any better if she had gone through with it. Even if I had actually intentionally ripped off a design, it was hypocritical of her to threaten to do the same in retaliation.
On a small ending note, I’d like to say that this matter has really dampened my confidence in myself as an artist. I was already fairly self-conscious of my style before, even asking friends to tell me if I got too close to people I idolize so I’d avoid becoming an “alternative”, and having this situation happen has really hurt me. However, with the support of friends and my own stubbornness, I am doing my best to move forward and grow as an artist.
I’d like to implore small and growing artists to seek out help if anyone harasses and wrongly accuses you like this. These kind of people can be scary and harmful. My whole experience, while brief, admittedly left me a mess that was often wondering things such as “Am I still so close to this artist’s style?” “Did I do similar palettes with them again?” “Am I going to get fingers pointed at me again?” every time I draw and I’d never wish those feelings on anyone else.
▌Hen-tie: April 2019 - Present
My unpleasant interactions with Vestigance have mostly been brief and indirect, in comparison to the previous testimonies.
April 2019
Vestigance had always been a well-mannered customer in my personal experience; so when a good client of mine (who was also a friend of Vestigance) asked a favor of me in giving her a custom adopt slot, I didn't hesitate to provide one sometime in August 2018. On April 12, 2019, Vestigance contacted me about her feud with Noriben in regards to the "copied design". She showed me "proof" that Noriben had been tracing my work, but I didn't see the grounds for such a big accusation in the “evidence.” I gave her my reasons as to why I didn't agree with her and for her to respect my wish of not wanting to be involved with her feud, and in response Vestigance demanded a refund of her adopt custom.
I didn't press the matter at the time despite her poor reasoning since I couldn't complete her custom in a timely manner anyhow due to personal circumstances at the time and didn’t want to make her wait. Additionally, I had reservations on continuing to work with her, especially after investigating Noriben's case on my own time. I thought that this matter would have simply ended with me permanently losing a client, but it would not be the case.
November 2019
While I was working on a PSA against EcnaDonVella in November, through the submitted discord screenshots I noticed misinformation in regards to my history of giving out refunds, since the only other person I have refunded in recent time beside Ecna was Vestigance. But it was just a simple suspicion, and I didn't connect the two until I was told of Vestigance’s possible involvement concerning Ecna by a number of people who knew her. However only one of them provided proper proof of it, of where Vestigance had reached out to ask Ecna via deviantart notes regarding filing a DMCA against someone before adding each other in discord.
► Vestigance’s Exchange with Ecna
Below is Ecna talking about their discord conversation:
Somehow Vestigance knew people were reaching out to warn me, so she sent a friend of hers to note me that she wouldn't push through with filing a lawsuit against me; though this claim would turn out to be nothing more than a false sense of relief.
I later received a private message some days later that she had resorted to defaming me, along with seemingly contacting multiple people about the matter regarding Ecna to possibly garner sympathy for her through a campaign of misinformation.
► Private message sent to me regarding Ecna & Vestigance
► Vestigance’s note
Note: Vestigance is heavily accusing me of bullying a mentally unstable person with PTSD.
While I do not know the full extent of her efforts and how many people she has contacted; I’m incredibly distressed by all this, not just for myself but for everyone else she has afflicted with her harassment and misinformation.
December 2019
Given the prior evidence, Vestigance may be the one Ecna is referring to in her recent endeavors. Below are highlighted parts of Ecna’s now deleted PSA posted on December 16, 2019.
Regarding myself, Vestigance is now on my public blacklist and blocked indefinitely due to her harmful actions towards me and my business.
▌Updates
Additional Testimonies
If you wish to share your experience please note me, Noriben, and let me know if you wish to be added anonymously to avoid possible further harassment by Vestigance and her circle.
- Misohungry [link to testimony]
This is related to Shrio-nii's testimony above, where Misohungry talks about her exchanges with Vestigance. - Anon
[link to the testimony]
This person was threatened with a PSA against them if they continued to sell an adopt Vestigance believed was "traced".
12/23/19
Vestigance may have possibly seen the PSA and seems to be presently targeting the people who openly took part in it. She is digging for personal information that is completely unrelated to this matter as a means of attack.
12/30/19
Vestigance posted on deviantart defamatory journals against hen-tie and misohungry, whom she accused of being drama seekers despite the legitimacy of this PSA. She blocked anyone remotely associated with either hen-tie or misohungry, while also disabling comments to prevent anyone to publicly disprove these false claims (while also lacking solid proof). Having no real defense, Vestigance publicized unrelated personal incidents and conflicts that do not affect or concern her directly. It seems the journals were solely made to defame both users who took part in this PSA, while also sprinkling bias opinions and assumptions from herself and the people she "interviewed".
- Journal made against hen-tie
- The journal is simply complaining about hen-tie's commission speed despite all the commissions being completed and hen-tie's initiative to update commissioners either through notes or public journals, and Vestigance contradicting herself by saying that she was satisfied with the results of her commissions anyway.
- Vestigance then talks about a conflict between hen-tie & pluehunter back in 2016, despite the incident being personal and resolved.
- There are false accusations of abuse and possibly fabricated evidence.
- Journal made against misohungry
- Vestigance talks about misohungry's personal conflicts with other users that isn't remotely PSA worthy such as strained friendships.
- Vestigance accused misohungry of harassing an artist despite not having any proper proof.
Below are the two public responses from hen-tie and misohungry to disprove the lies and accusations that Vestigance has said.
- Hen-tie's Journal
- Misohungry's Journal
While I understand that this update is rather late, I feel that it is still relevant given that both Vestigance's journals are still active to this day.
Edit: Due to the defamatory journals being removed, the links have been taken down from this update as well.
Edit: Due to the defamatory journals being removed, the links have been taken down from this update as well.
We apologize for the length but thank you for reading.
Submitted Anon Testimony
April 2019
hello ! hope it's fine that I'm messaging you ;; but regarding the PSA on Vestigance, i was wondering if it would be possible to add my own experience and remain anonymous ? since around Feb / March, i've been. . .targeted by her and her "group" (sporadically) and i'm very much wary of having my username on there ;; i'm just going to focus on Vestigance since i'm 100% not sure if the other people are directly involved with her / have done the same to you or others ;;
please note that i did delete the deviation purely out of fear (why it's crossed out). i have issues with anxiety and wished to get everything sorted out as quickly as possible. and i was relatively new to the adopt makers market & digital art in general. i didn't have much of a following or too much support at the time either. ;;
i was never given the gif she mentioned directly. another user noted me a gif but a friend of mine (who i showed everything to) said that in their gif it looked like they had tilted my artwork a bit so that it lined up more with yuki's. i won't be including the person who sent second note as i'm not sure if they're involved or not. i did message back person who sent second note. they read the note but never did reply. they seemed really cordial so i'm hesitant to add them or their note.
i don't have any original file of my original art work. all i have is the first and second revision + the overlay. i deleted everything else after i did second revision of chibi.
overlap, yuki's and my revised first version can be seen here
i contacted three people (two were friends and the other an unbiased source) for help / opinions. the conversation with friends is lost in discord (due to this happening early in the year) but i can find it if needed. some messages are kinda irrelevant but I wanted to screenshot everything tied to this for clarity. name is blacked out so they aren't contacted.
the message with friend A, they agreed with Unbiased. friend B said that the faces were similar as was the pose and that I should try to talk to her more. after i got Vestigance's reply, i dropped that idea entirely at behest of friend A. to avoid trouble, drama, and more anxiety, I just completely re-did the chibi.
i'm not sure if the two other users who noted me around that time were in contact with Vestigance or not. and i'm hesitant to include notes or such from them as I don't want to accuse and point fingers since i'm not 100% certain they were in contact with each other.
due to this, i've 90% changed my style and tried to stay away from yukibun art & designs & painting in general ;;
i haven't been contacted by Vestigance directly again but i was accused by one of the two others in September about older art style. i contacted the artist directly this time and the issue resolved with artists' help. since i've changed my style a lot and stopped painting, i haven't been contacted by any of three again.
anoniemous pst, just wanted to let you know you might want to cross out the username on the adopt gifs because it's visible!! ;;
SeaSlugs Thank you for informing us quickly! We didn't notice immediately so we apologize for the slip-up.
wanted to point out, putting any two images with similar poses/proportions on top of each other, with lowered opacity, can make them seem more similar than they actually are. with the opacity down, details can be harder to make out, and things can kind of. blur together. so i tend to take that kind of 'proof' with a grain of salt. for me at least, i find it a lot easier to just rapidly flip between two fully opaque images that are lined up to tell if there's tracing going on
using the anon's case:
for the one where i just put the yuki adopt over top, i lined it up as best i could and turned down the transparency. this makes it more difficult to make out the details of both. even if i made it a gif, like in the gif anon was sent, going between the partly transparent layer being overlayed and just the anon's adopt, the details are harder to make out and so it's easier to think they're more similar than they are
for the gif that flips between the two images, lined up exactly the same, you can pick out a lot more details and see how there isn't really tracing. the eyes are differently shaped and placed differently, the torsos are different lengths, the necks are different sizes and don't line up at all, etc. basically it shows the situation for what it is: two chibis in somewhat similar poses- though even the poses differ in the direction of the head, the placement of the limbs, etc
there's bound to be similarities when two people draw chibi humanoids. that doesn't mean it's tracing. i can't say whether the original concerns were coming from a real place or if they were fabricated, as it is entirely possible to convince yourself of something unintentionally, but i can say that the gif used as proof doesn't really hold up. i'm sorry to anon who went through this, i'm sure it was stressful, even if you know you didn't do anything wrong-
considering ecna's "court case" against hen-tie basically boils down to "i'm throwing a fit bc she politely refused to do business with me", i doubt that will go anywhere, honestly. i remember some drama about white knighting going on a couple months ago that yuki kept low on details/context, but yuki DID explicitly condemn this sort of harassment.
like tracing is one thing... referencing is another... being inspired by things is neither of those and there's literally nothing in existence that isn't inspired by something or other bc you can't just pull shit out of a vacuum; it's not how human brains work. saw a cool butterfly outside and want to make a butterfly themed adopt? inspiration! watching naruto and wanting to make something toad themed? inspiration! but i digress skldghsdh,,, in any case, coincidences happen bc there's only so many ways you can do "winged kemonomimi boy with a mostly white palette" &etc. there's a lot of big name artists whose styles can be grouped in similar categories and it's really not a big deal imo T_T;
Vestigance seems to have posted a response?
https://www.deviantart.com/vestigance/journal/Regarding-Hentie-Myonehen-824449835
Regarding the recent journal Vestigance has put up, you are free to draw your own conclusions with what was said. However I would like to share my thoughts and disprove the parts that contain misinformation.
I'm aware of my faults as a commissionable artist, such as the long length with the delivery time of my work. However, I've always done my best to update my commissioners regarding delays if I had difficulties due to circumstances in my personal life, and always provided a refund if it was asked for. I've avoided opening too many commission slots when I'm overwhelmed and have also made steps in improving myself and my services since then.
Regarding the Pluehunter-related screenshots that are in the journal, I do not wish to go into detail about my feelings because that incident was very personal to me. I do admit that I didn't handle it well since I was very emotional at the time. However I want to emphasize that when Pluehunter approached me about the matter, I did my best to change my species accordingly and to work towards a satisfactory resolution for both sides. As far as I'm concerned, it is resolved on my side and I would prefer that this could be put behind us since this happened over 3 years ago. I cannot change how Pluehunter feels if she doesn't feel the same way, but despite everything I sincerely wish the best for her.
Additionally, I have also personally spoken to Rohio on instagram DM and have cleared things up between the two of us. After speaking with me and reading the PSAs concerning Ecna and Vestigance, she understood my circumstances.
Lastly, regarding Vestigance's claims about me abusing a user called Uraumi, that is not true. Below are the screenshots of the only conversations I've had with Uraumi, which were through twitter DMs, so I do not know to whom that closing discord screenshot is addressed to. The only thing I did in the discord group chat Uraumi invited me to is to collect screenshots that I didn't post in Ecna's PSA to respect my promise with her to not release them publicly.
Despite my feelings, I do not see the point of Vestigance resurfacing and taking part in two incidents that doesn't concern her directly and doesn't affect her as someone who was once my client.
To anyone who has taken Vestigance's side or that of her friends', if you haven't been blocked yet please do not force me to by contacting me or anyone who is affiliated with me in the hopes of changing my decisions or removing my segment of this PSA. I do not appreciate being passed messages from Vestigance or her friends' through proxies and having to hear unapologetic guilt-tripping and accusations towards me. Please stop.