PSA Nilthenihilist: Resolved (3.05)

Wow I'll definitely be avoiding this user in the future.  I would agree that changing the hairstyle before reselling would be necessary but otherwise this design doesn't resemble anything on the characters page, nor was there any direction indicating they wanted this final form.  I watched the video and couldn't detect anything it really resembled there either??  I feel like they're vastly over reacting, and blocking you like that was wickedly childish of them.  

Overall they don't have any claim on the design as it looks to have completely from you (other then the hair, and maybe changing the eye colour just to be extra safe) and they have 0 claim on it like you said since they didn't pay a thing.  There is no palette reference and you can hardly copyright 'fantasy grunge'.]

I had a look in the gallery and it wasn't there, nor were there any hidden images so I don't think they've posted it at all.

SquidsInTheAttic
I absolutely agree about changing those parts of the design! I planned to completely change the hairstyle as well as the eye colour in the event of reselling the design once it was fully painted. I didn't feel right keeping the hair or the sapphire eyes on the design;; I really appreciate you going out of your way to check if the design was uploaded or not on his account! It eases my mind a lot more knowing he didn't do something like that!

I agree with the opinions above. It should be fine to resell since it does not resemble his character.

Just one thing that I'll like to suggest, is that when you resell, you make potential buyers aware of this PSA. Since there could be a small likelihood of the new owner being harassed.

Etoile
I really like that suggestion as I had not considered doing that! I certainly will be adding the PSA to the adoptable thank you so much.

Everoesea
I'm really embarrassed about how I only signed the image instead of properly watermarking it as you suggested. I will remember this so I do not make the same mistake twice, friend or not;; I really hope if there are any other artists reading that they just use my experience and your advice as their own. I went ahead and blocked him here yesterday but was unfamiliar with any side accounts. I didn't really know they could be used as a means to block evade so thank you for letting me know about that;;. I'll certainly keep that in mind if he ever comes around to claim the design again! I agree with you and Etoile about adding the PSA to the adaptable and will do that! Thank you for your kind wishes!

Hello! I've dealt with an unusual payment issue before, and it was something like this where they had sent the money and I didn't receive it, but it turned out okay on my end. Paypal sent an email to me right away to say there was going to be a wait and explained why; in my case it was because the user was a non-US, Unverified account; I think they paid with their card rather than a PP account. If I remember correctly, instead of saying "Pending", the payment said "Processing". It also took less than 24 hours for the payment to clear.

I don't know what it said on their end, since it was very clear on mine, and I wasn't worried.

Pepperly given that op contacted paypal directly and was told no payment had been made, i think it's pretty safe to not give further benefit of doubt ><

in this case the doctored proof was pretty simple, but i wanted to mention for future reference even 'proofs' that check out can be edited via built in browser tools and screencapped (the page isnt live, but you cant know that from a screencap). i wont go into detail regarding that, but ive seen it used to fake everything from browser discord logs to pp payment history and more orz

mozaik

I'm not giving Nil the benefit of the doubt. Sorry if I explained it poorly, I was just trying to say "that's not at all what Paypal does if payments are pending, here's what I've seen when it actually happens". Hexe absolutely would've been informed by Paypal if any funds were sent, and if they were on hold. 

On top of that, Nil seems to buy comms a lot, has a PP account, and lives in the US. There's not really any reason for money to be on hold.

Pepperly Oh! I'm actually familiar with that type of unverified PayPal issue you're talking about! This wasn't like that however because I had experienced something exactly like that in the past with my own account in which I had to re-verify! When something like that happens the pending for me in the past was purple rather than blue and on my end, it actually said paid rather than pending which I had to show the artist I was purchasing from. Paypal also informed us of it being held and gave us a specific date as to when the money would release.

From the Seller's end:

From my end on the same day when I was talking with the artist and telling them that it had actually deducted from my account:

I also told the artist that if it did not clear by the 12th my friend would send the money and I made every single effort to keep her involved while I re-linked the same card I had again to my PayPal. It eventually cleared and no issues happened again as my account became re-verified with the same card. He also kept claiming he would send me an e-mail confirmation on the app he used but never did prior to blocking me. I never got any sort of notification from PayPal either in my e-mails that any sort of payment was actually pending or being held and as mozaik points out when I called, PayPal confirmed that he just did not send the money at all which is what was the final push to confront me as I felt that was the most undeniable proof I could give him. I appreciate you thinking about the unverified thing as a possible reason as to why it might have not sent because; at the very least; I have these old screenshots from a different case to prove further that this is not what happened with him;;

Edit: Oh, I'm so sorry I didn't see your response to mozaik! I was actually going through all of my notes looking for these specific screenshots gah! I think I misunderstood as well what you meant if this isn't the case; I apologize!

Ok so I am putting in my two cents here as I have dealt with this paypal thing on numerous occasions. If paypal is down for maintenence or they are updating their server it will process the incoming payments as an echeck automatically --maintenence is uslually early morning from 2am to 4am EST. This also happens if the app is hiccuping and the payment is made through the app. Unfortunately there is no way to know a payment has been put on hold as an echeck unless you scroll through your activity (not your activity summary, because it wont show up there) and check to see if you have a pending payment coming in of the money. A PayPal echeck takes 7 to 10 days to clear... It will automatically withdraw money from the bank account of the person paying and put a hold on it for the person receiving money. Sometimes it will explicity say "echeck" and sometimes it will just say "Pending Payment".

If Nil's DID get echecked it will not have notified you but it WILL have notified him. PayPal customer service is kinda dumb with echecks as if he called them they would say "yes you paid its pending" but if you called them they would say "no you havent received money from this account". As I said I have dealt with this about 7 or 8 times from trusted sources (regular buyers who it never happened to previously, and my roommate paying the rent).

It is unfortunate that conclusions seem to have been jumped to in thinking it would clear in 2 to 3 days. I reccommend watching your PayPal over the next week to see if it clears as an echeck later and refunding him if you really do not want him to use that sketch.

@Hexe
My point is that it's still pretty easy to see when something's wrong, just like that! 

@cindyjeans
I didn't know about the e-check thing, but it shouldn't have been difficult to check for confirmation emails from Paypal if Nil got alerted that things were on hold or e-check'd. I stand by my statement that Paypal is good at informing how things are going, and someone could've seen if something went wrong somewhere. All I know is that every time something happens on my Paypal account (I buy something, a subscription gets re-upped, I get invoiced, I get paid), I get an email about it. Nil thought he paid but it actually didn't go through (which he confirmed before blocking), but the reaction of blocking because he himself didn't pay, and he still wants to keep the design, is wild.

It is possible for it say pending on the payer's side, it has happened to me several times. (Like someone else mentioned, it's easily resolved by canceling the invoice and re-sending.) It's possible he genuinely believe he paid it and thought paypal was just doing it's thing and it would clear in a few days. Granted he could have checked it more thoroughly/he was being careless, but like... we're all humans who make mistakes

Reading through this, I feel like this person made a mistake then got really mad when you called them a liar and acted a bit irrationally. It would have been better for them to take a day to collect their thoughts/calm down then come back to resolve the issue with you in private instead of blocking you. Even if the comm was still canceled, the whole thing could have been resolved a bit more nicely if you had been able to talk it out

With that being said, approaching someone with "you're a liar" is... not great communication. It's insulting and is very likely to make the other party feel attacked/be upset with you. It would have been nicer to say something along the lines of "i called paypal and they said there is no pending payment, could you re-check the invoice?"
it's possible he could have given you some weird excuse/this could have ended the same way, but in your last communication he acknowledges he thought he sent payment but it didn't and he made a mistake. It's just as possible he could have went "oh i see i made a mistake, i'm sorry" and then paid the invoice immediately and you wouldn't ended a relationship with a customer/friend over something that was an accident. What's done is done and there is no way of knowing at this point, but just thought I'd toss it out there in case something like this ever happens to you again with payments on paypal. It doesnt excuse his temper/him blocking you, but it's a good practice to approach customers/friends respectfully with issues

Also I do agree you have the right to change the hair and sell the design; while I understand from his perspective this design feels very personal/tied to his character, from an outsiders view I've seen stuff like this before. I don't mean this in a negative way, just that I don't think the design is so unique it could only be tied to his character; i think it can be re-purposed so you can get some money back on your time.

I'm not sure how much you valued your friendship with this person, but if you would be interested in saving it/ending this on good terms, I'd give them a few days to calm down. Once their initial anger has passed they may contact you to work it out/see if they can negotiate having you finish this piece for them. They mentioned paying extra to compensate you for your trouble and they may be willing to do this? This situation seems mostly caused by miscommunication/emotions so I feel like if you both gave yourself a few days then tried to talk, you might be able to part on better terms. In my general experience, this is kind of the better path to take because it gives you a real resolution vs forever lingering bad feelings (him feeling you disrespected him by calling him a liar and that you're taking the design of his oc, while you feeling like he was dishonest and worrying he will try to use your art without having paid for it)