Seller Beware >>> Pvff [updated]

Posted 11 months, 20 days ago (Edited 11 months, 19 days ago) by Cloverleaf

I'm going to make this as short and sweet as possible, this is not because I have any kind of personal vendetta against this person, but because of the fact that they have repeatedly knowingly taken advantage of many people to turn a profit.

The user Pvff (same on da and chicken smoothie) blatantly ignores the TOS of any/every artist that they purchase characters from claiming that their own TOS overrides the TOS of the actual creator/s

Here is a screen shot of their current TOS as proof https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/307519314930565120/417554304312934410/Screen_Shot_2018-02-26_at_12.30.54_AM.png?width=754&height=519

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/307519314930565120/417554309300092929/Screen_Shot_2018-02-26_at_12.31.09_AM.png?width=1080&height=171

Besides this entirely inappropriate behavior they have also

- Misled an artist about the value of offsite currency in order to buy 13 characters for about $45 dollars worth (They claimed it was worth around $90) and proceeded to immediately sell these characters for $5 a piece https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/381662784368279553/417800345192890379/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/381662784368279553/417800361026387968/image.png

- Openly admitted to flipping characters without the artist's permission to resell the designs AT ALL and claiming they had permission from others to do so https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/307519314930565120/417553535270649866/Screen_Shot_2018-02-26_at_12.28.13_AM.png?width=434&height=519

- Openly reprimanded people for selling characters when they were not allowed to be sold despite claiming they're allowed to because of their TOS and doing it repeatedly https://sta.sh/01bt9iaew8ie

- Mass buys any and all characters offered to them offsite and proceeds to immediately put them uft/s on devientart http://www.chickensmoothie.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3207552 https://pvff.deviantart.com/journal/9000-Characters-For-Sale-Open-731982129

- Upon being told they were not allowed to sell characters they'd obtained against the TOS of the designer deleted the characters

Basically among other shady dealings this person continually exploits people using their own "TOS" as an excuse to violate artist's/designer's and make a quick profit and when confronted attempts to delete any and all evidence that could you used to warn others.

I really hope this helps spread the word so more people don't have to have their TOS violated and their rights as an artist ignored.

bandycam

They're pretty highly talked about on Furvilla (pet site) as well for this, and a lot of the users there (including ones they've bought from for site currency) are having massive issues with them because of it.

STORAGE

Wow, this person is just greasy. e.e; However, might I add my opinion to this as well? Technically, what is stated in Pvff's "TOS" (aside from her voiding the other person's TOS) is already what legally happens when someone is handed copyright ownership of a design, unless the recipient physically or electronically signed a TOS stating otherwise. 

So in this sense, their TOS is mostly law-abiding and is legally sound (and common in professional trading / dealing with copyright ownership of something) - however, in order for HER TOS to be legally binding, along with the person she is trading with, they both have to physically or electronically sign that TOS. This can be done through (a) Paypal Invoice (b) Google Forms (c) Any sort of online physical signing, such as clicking an "I agree" box on a site when signing up, etc etc. 

However, the question I have: Has she signed another person's TOS? Or has that person signed hers? Simply saying "By buying, you are-" is not at all legally binding (on both sides), and upon trading a character, the recipient by law can do anything they want with that character unless a TOS (which has to be signed) has stated otherwise. 

If not, then this honestly falls down in the bracket of 'good faith' trading and ultimately.. I hate to play the devil's advocate, but she has the right to use the designs (whether it be trading, reselling, etc) in any way, shape, or form if no TOS has been signed - because thats the standard usage that comes along with relinquishing copyright ownership of your adoptable / trade / design / etc. 

However, if she has electronically signed a TOS and has broke it, then she is ultimately breaking the law and she can be taken to court for a breach of TOS and contract agreement. 

Anything else she has done (such as flipping characters, falsifying their credit, etc) is wrong though and I agree with the others - I am very glad you wrote this PSA. I just wanted to write my little tid-bit here so other people can know; MAKE PEOPLE SIGN YOUR TOS SO IT'S LEGALLY BINDING.. this will save you sooooooo much trouble in the future.

edit: just in case people ask in the future; I know this because I have spoken with an attorney about this, considering I have had issues with breaching TOS many times.

AsylumPatient

STORAGE alongside what you said, if the original TOS says that the artist retains their copyright on the design, it voids out a lot of her TOS simply by design. Artists have to specifically state somewhere however that they retain their copyright, otherwise it is legally assumed to go to the buyer. Since we're talking non-tangible goods IE digital art copyright law still hasn't quite caught up yet and thus we run into these issues, IE If I specifically state that I retain copyright to my artwork, I can DMCA you if you try to sell the piece alongside the featured character or otherwise reproduce the work without permission. Most people won't do that even if they retain their copyright because of how the community works but it's a possibility. They might be adoptable designs but they still apply as a digital art product, non-tangible good, and becomes more complicated. Of course then a lot of this gets into trade law, first buyer clause, etc. Because it is as much a piece of artwork they made as much as it is a product you buy


*ETA* Written consent counts here too xD I own copyright of my artwork, you own copyright of your character, but via commissioning artwork of the character you've given written consent for that character to be featured in an art piece. Retaining copyright as an Artist simply means you don't give up your rights to the piece, despite the fact it features someone else's character. Otherwise if you're commissioned, you lose all* rights to the work once completed because of the nature of that specific business relationship.    * - Correct me if I'm wrong on 'all' rights

STORAGE

AsylumPatient - You're absolutely right about the DMCA part - you can't make someone remove an artwork you made for their character since it constitutes as fanart of their copyrighted creation and features their character in the art-piece. Whether they received it as a gift, trade, or through commissioning;; you still retain rights to your artwork, meaning you reserve the right to DMCA anyone else that reposts it that isn't the copyright owner - but likewise, the owner of the character you drew also reserves the right to DMCA this piece of artwork towards anyone else since it features their character. And by law, they reserve the right to include fanart pieces in the total price of the resell if they didn't physically or electronically sign an agreement stating otherwise. That's just how the law works. If it's a gift, you can resell it as long as it isn't a conditional gift (IE an engagement ring)

In a sense, it kind of cancels each other out. Both of you retain rights to the artwork so both parties can use the artwork fairly unless you make the person sign a TOS upon receiving the fanart - and even then, they can still use the artwork since it features their copyrighted character. You can only really make them sign an agreement that they cannot profit off of your fanart or commissioned artwork - which as you stated, is unlikely to happen in the community because most people don't realize that good faith doesn't get far in court.

RadioactiveAcid

she posted an "apology" on furvilla adressing the stole character issue however she still doesnt own up to the fact that shes flipping character for USD

http://www.furvilla.com/forums/thread/89264-imreally-sorry


this is really messed up. I thought her apology seemed hollow but now its pretty much confirmed shes only saying sorry because she got caught.

and her going " uwu getting called out for doing bad stuff makes me sad and anxious!!!!!!" like......girl just stop scamming people. 

ringo

Ah, the poster didn't want me to ping them. -Sighs loudly.- Sorry, long day.

The first step to becoming a better person is to realize your mistakes and do your best not to relapse into being the problem again, not asking someone to hide your bad deeds like they never happened. I'm sorry that you're hurt over this, I really am; as someone who also suffers from anxiety around people, I also hate confrontation. However, this thread provides insight into what not to do in this community. I hope that you'll really consider that the ToS of other artist's are first and foremost, because they're the ones who put their hard work into a design for buyers.