@/KittyGhosts Nice! You definitely dodged a bullet there! I'll have a talk with my bank to see if they can reverse the charge directly on their end since PayPal can no longer do it (and see if that's a possible option for others), but it's been so long I doubt they can manage it even if they wanted to.
LINK TO DROPBOX POST: Artists Beware: BabushkaVatman
ARTISTS BEWARE LINK: https://artists-beware.livejournal.com/993878.html
ALIASES:
(NSFW GALLERY) https://babushkavatman.deviantart.com/
(NSFW GALLERY) https://babushkavatman.tumblr.com/
ISSUE: Never delivered order.
WHAT HAPPENED: I ordered a 270 USD custom with a back view and extras from this artist back in July 2017. It has not been delivered. The artist has been silent for months and inactive on all known social media.
TIMELINE:
13 July 2017: Purchased custom adopt commission through an auction for 270 USD. (Proof 1. Proof 2.)
13 July 2017: Artist confirmed order and sent invoice. Invoice paid the same day. Artist acknowledges payment. (Proof 3. Proof 4. Proof 5.)
July 2017 - September 2017: I receive no updates despite exchanging more correspondence about the design specifics. Up to 25 July 2017, we made small talk and discussed design details. After that point, nothing until September. (Proof 6.) This screenshot is filtered for notes sent from BabushkaVatman.
During this period of silence between July and September, the artist continues outputting adopts and YCH sales.
19 September 2017: I update the artist's reference links to a neater folder. (Proof 7.) The artist replies, but there is still no visual WIP update.
September 2017 - November 2017: No further updates. Artist continues uploading adopts and YCH sales.
26 November 2017: There is still no update. I request an update or, alternatively, a refund. The artist finally shows a visual WIP, but cannot provide a refund at the moment. (Proof 8. Proof 9. Proof 10.)
27 November 2017 - 1 December 2017: The artist seems genuinely apologetic during our conversation. I relent and agree to wait for the finished product. This is a mistake. (Proof 11. Proof 12. Proof 13.)
12 January 2018: There has been no contact since December. I ask again for an update. (Proof 14.)
22 January 2018: The artist posts another completed adopt.
22 January 2018: The artist replies with an update message. No visual updates. This is the last time this artist has contacted me since. (Proof 15.)
24 January 2018: The artist posts another completed adopt.
4 February 2018: The artist posts another completed adopt. This is the latest activity on the DA page. But not the Tumblr page. Will detail below.
25 February 2018: I ask for another update. (Proof 16.) No response. Unread.
March 2018: While the artist remains inactive and unresponsive on DA, the Tumblr page notes a recently liked post from user nemichen. (Proof 17. [NSFW has been blurred out. Safe to click.]) This post by nemichen was made on 3 March 2018 (link to post here, slight NSFW, male upper body nudity). The artist has been able to access the internet sometime after 3 March 2018. (A more thorough search through recent likes show liked posts from as recent as 2 April 2018. [link]) I did not notice this until recently, but will add it chronologically for easier following.
12 March 2018: I ask for another update. No response. Unread. (Proof 17.)
29 March 2018: I leave a comment on the original deviation of the custom sale. No response. (Proof 18.)
31 March 2018: I message the artist on DA again. (Proof 19. Proof 20.) Unread.
3 May 2018: I leave the artist a courtesy message on the artist's DA profile stating my intentions to write a PSA on Artists Beware. (Proof 21.) That PSA is still pending moderator approval, but I have replicated it here as well.
There is still no response. I also have not seen any of the YCH sales completed and posted, but cannot verify that they were never done.
Given the circumstances, I am aware that if the artist's main income is through art, then regular output of sales and adopts is to be expected while the artist works on a commission. This was never the problem. The problem was the lack of communication and continued lack of communication.
As it stands, I have no finished product and the artist either refuses to get in touch or has neglected to for whatever reason.
But the real lesson here is to never let an artist drag you past PayPal's 6-month buyer protection period, regardless of their reasoning, unless they have solid communication and steady visual updates. Don't make my mistake.
After contacting PayPal, they have refunded me the full amount. This beware remains to warn others of this artist.
21 February 2019 UPDATE: After contacting the artist regarding use of the sketches/designs despite PayPal fully refunding the payment, the artist has allowed me to use the artwork and the designs. (Proof 22.)
I've had the same problems ;o; I did get a sketch wip of my order with some flat colours but have not heard from them since late November. It's really disheartening going through this and hearing about so many others going through this as well, since this is one of my first big commission buys. I want to commission other people but now I'm so scared of them turning out the same way.
I'm going to try and get in contact with PayPal about this mess.
Have you tried to the original PayPal email suggestion? I would love to hear if you receive any sort of feedback from them through there.
albitic I have tried everything from the Tumblr to the original PayPal address and there’s still no response. Someone else even charged back already and even then there doesn’t seem to be any updates on the artist.
Sorry to say it, but looks like she’s running completely. As for commissioning other artists, just do some pre-commission prep and check their username on Google with the words “scam” and “beware” and “problem” separately to make sure there’s no beware or PSA already written about them somewhere (check past usernames too if you have access to that information), their preferred platform’s posting rates, their gallery of commisioned works, the frequency of general activity, if they have a public to-do list, if they have lots of other social media you can track them on, and if there’s any life issues they keep making statuses and journals/posts about.
The last one is a big thing because no matter how well-meaning an artist is, if they constantly have issues IRL they won’t finish your commission in a timely manner. I’m sorry to say I actively avoid certain types of commission openings due to past experiences with that problem. It’s not a perfect methodology, but I’ve commissioned over 200 artists and only had to write a PSA about one so I don’t think it’s such a bad ratio if you’re a careful commissioner.
I have a positive update on a method that is a complete and total shot in the dark. This is a "Hail Mary" tactic so please be aware that its failure rate is incredibly high. And PayPal has no obligation to help you past the 6-month buyer protection period (180 days). Remember that no matter how rude the agent you get may be, there's no benefit to being rude back. Just wish them a good day and hang up if they refuse to help because, technically speaking, they really cannot help you.
Don't go into this expecting any success, is my warning.
If you purchased through "goods and services" or an invoice AND paid through your PayPal balance, this method MIGHT work. Given how rarely I hear of these things, you're likely to fail 9 out of 10 times.
It's just that there's no harm in trying it other than a bit of your time wasted and minor frustration if you get a rude agent. If you succeed, they'll open a case even on an order that is older than 6-months.
- Call PayPal using the correct number for US or international. (This is the US support line for PayPal so your results may vary if international.)
- Make sure you're calling during active hours and not during the last two or so hours of the phone line being open. Around 12-5 PM PST is usually the ideal time, I've found, to get an agent on the line.
- The automated system will answer you.
- Say "Agent." Enunciate very clearly since the speech recognition program is a little weak.
- The system will say it needs to confirm your identity. Answer anything it asks you.
- When you're done confirming to the system you're you, it will proceed to a list of general options. Interrupt it and say "Agent" again.
- It will acknowledge, but try to list several options that can be done automatically. Interrupt it again and say "Agent."
- By now it should connect you to one, but if not continue saying "Agent" until the system gives up and connects you to one. You may be put on a bit of a hold.
- This sounds like a huge hassle but remember that the overwhelming majority of PayPal phone calls are issues that could easily be solved through the automatic process.
- The agent will ask what the issue is, and here it's important to stay polite and clear.
- Tell them honestly what the problem is and why you didn't chargeback sooner.
- I said "I ordered a commission piece from an artist almost a year ago and never received the finished piece. I know I should have charged back sooner and I know it's well past the 6-month buyer protection period, but this artist kept in touch through the 6-month period and led me to believe the order would be completed soon. After the protection period ended, they stopped communicating with me and now I don't know what to do. I was just hoping there was something PayPal could do about this or any suggestions you might have."
- Obviously this would be tailored to your experiences, but remember to be patient and polite. And don't jump to the word "chargeback" or "dispute/claim" AT ALL or say something like "Well, someone else I know did this and got a refund!" Those are surefire ways to make the agent NOT help you. Remember, you're at their mercy here since you're asking them to help you past the obligated help period, so let them offer any help they are allowed to give (if you're lucky they may ask a supervisor to approve your issue, but most of the agents you'll speak to do not have sweeping permissions to fix many things--be considerate). If the answer is "Sorry, there's nothing we can do," thank them for their time and hang up. Maybe try again another time and hope for a different agent.
- After this, it really depends on the agent you get and the luck of the draw. Mine asked for the order ID (make sure you look up the order ID and have it ready or know the transaction date and amount) and looked into the order.
- Since it was purchased through the invoice system, it qualified for further investigation (always select "goods and services" or use an invoice!). The agent told me they would have redirected me to talk with my bank or credit card issuer, but since I paid through a PayPal balance, they couldn't do that. They did note that it was past the protection period, but put me on hold while they spoke with someone else.
- Be careful here. If you paid directly through your bank account or a credit card, it's extremely likely they will direct you to your bank or your credit card issuer instead. If this is the case with your transaction, then there is zero chance PayPal will proceed further because they can offload the situation to someone else.
- When they got back to me some minutes later, they had received approval to open the case as a dispute and said I would receive further instructions once the ticket processed through the system. The official dispute would be under the issue of "item not received."
- I said "I ordered a commission piece from an artist almost a year ago and never received the finished piece. I know I should have charged back sooner and I know it's well past the 6-month buyer protection period, but this artist kept in touch through the 6-month period and led me to believe the order would be completed soon. After the protection period ended, they stopped communicating with me and now I don't know what to do. I was just hoping there was something PayPal could do about this or any suggestions you might have."
- Tell them honestly what the problem is and why you didn't chargeback sooner.
I'm currently waiting on PayPal's verdict for this case, but I honestly didn't expect the call to work. I thought they would just apologize and say "There's nothing we can do" which is the standard answer for these situations and the one I thought I saw coming from a mile away.
Hopefully they rule the case in my favor, but this is a tiny mote of hope for the rest of you guys. Good luck!
(opinion post, fyi!) I think the reason Paypal has a limit (6 months) is so people don't flood it with "I didn't get this or that" messages and notes. In all honesty, I'm not even sure if Paypal ever intended for it's services to be used as intended within the artist community (digital goods), but rather for small business who sell real goods (I.e clothing, small things).
I'm glad to hear you might be making some footway in the process. Keep us update! :3
So just an update! Paypal refunded my commission. From the looks of it the artist never responded to any of Paypals messages. The claim never moved out of the 'waiting for sells response' section. So I have no idea what is happening on the artists end, but they seem to be either ignoring messages even sent to emails or something has happened to them. I hope its the first one. But it's hard to know since they seemed to have disappeared off the net. Either way, if anyone else is still able to do a refund I would recommend it.
So my notes on DA have finally been read. (Proof 22.) I keep them in the "Starred" section to occasionally check if the subject lines ever become unbolded (which would be the indication that the recipient has at least opened them).
I have not been keeping close tabs on this since I had assumed nothing more would happen, but when I checked yesterday 23 May, they had been opened by the artist. Between writing the PSA on 6 May until now, I had neglected to check on the Starred folder of my notes frequently and cannot recall exact dates that I did check--maybe two or three times at most.
At the very least, however, the artist/their account is around and opening notes. Why they have yet to respond with a PayPal dispute looming over them (and they have not responded in PayPal's resolution center either, for that matter) is beyond me, but I think by now (with Sarubia's similar issue) it's safe to assume they are completely ignoring the consequences of their actions and have not actually disappeared off the net at all.
https://babushkavatman.deviantart.com/art/Cotton-Candy-Boy-Adopt-Set-Price-746391659
they've posted another adopt, and a status post so I'm assuming your notes were opened at the same time!
Whoops, I don't recall unfollowing them but that apparently happened. The status post I'm not really sure I believe since her timeline of favorites on Tumblr indicate a different story nor do I believe that for the entirety of five whole months she was completely unable to access the internet to write some form of update or reply. She has yet to respond to me personally and for all the leeway I've given her I see no reason to give any more.
Considering that all this activity is only happening now after one chargeback has gone through and another one is in progress, I lean more to the opinion that she's finally starting to hurt from how much money is being taken away.
Regardless, I will let PayPal decide in about three more days.
Word of the wise, do not mention that you commissioned a “custom”. PayPal will close the case against you. I JUST had this happen, and was told by several employees, that customs are NOT covered by buyer protection. You will need to say that items were not delivered.
Oh, yeah, super thanks for that warning. I didn't even mention the item was digital only--just that I never received the final product of an order to really emphasize what the problem is.
Unfortunately the invoice itself states that the item is a "custom character design" so hopefully the matter of non-delivery supersedes that issue. Regardless, I think we're both in deep water here since neither your order nor my situation is covered by their purchase protection:
https://gyazo.com/2b36d9ec63f09f845a9e66d7aa550e72
In your case it was "Custom-made goods that are significantly not as described" (since we can't expect PayPal to understand the specific culture behind closed species, adoptables, and illegal designs, this would be the broader classification for the issue with Guro-boy) and in mine it's "Disputes filed more than 180 days after the purchase for item not received and significantly not as described claims."
It's all luck from here.
Good news at last: PayPal decided in my favor and the full amount has been refunded to me. The artist never replied for the duration of the case—not through PayPal nor through DeviantArt.
This is immensely relieving on the money part and simultaneously disappointing in terms of the artist. This case is now resolved, but I will leave the PSA up as a warning for others. Be careful if you do decide to buy adopt extras or a commission from this artist—you may just end up with ten months’ worth of stress instead.