PayPal PSA(?) / Alternative Service

Posted 5 years, 19 days ago (Edited 5 years, 15 days ago) by Lukitsune

I'm not sure if this technically fits here because it's not about a particular buyer or seller BUT it is about a service that we as artists use. I think it's super important information for people to know. If this doesn't belong here I'm sure an admin will tell me and I'll remove it ^ ^

So I've had a number of people ask me why I've stopped using PayPal and started using Square so I figured I'd make a bulletin explaining my reasoning.


More and more I see cases of artists getting completely screwed over by PayPal because PayPal doesn't protect digital artists. I, unfortunately, was one of those people who got screwed over. My experience when dealing with PayPal representatives wasn't a pleasant one at all and goes as follows:

Feb. 14th- I notice that my PayPal account is limited and they wanted me to provide some legal documents to prove my identity. I gladly sent in copies of my legal documents and hoped to get the limitation removed so I could transfer my funds into my bank.

Feb. 18th- I get an email from PayPal saying that my account was permanently limited due to me apparently breaking some of their Acceptable Policy. Which I didn't mind you. It all seemed really strange as I've never gotten any charge backs or any disputes filed against me before. I was really confused as to why they would limit my account. I then check my account and it was true, I had been limited permanently. I then contacted customer support through the website and they just bs-ed me and threw the same copy, paste information that they did in their email. I then pushed more to try and find out how I possibly violated their policies. I never got a reply from them again, they just completely ignored me. 

I waited a couple hours and still no reply, at this point I was really getting worried so I called PayPal through their phone number. Once I was on the line with a representative she was very helpful but didn't seem to know what she was doing. She asked me where I sold my art and I told her, I even provided proof that customers were getting my products. She said she would fix it and get back to me within 7-10 days. 

Mar. 5th- After two weeks with no word from PayPal I decided to call customer support again. This time, the call was much shorter and much more upsetting. I told the woman about my situation and how I had waited for their call and she said, "I'm so sorry to hear that you had to wait but if you want your account unlimited you're going to have to have to take us to court." I was shocked at that, especially when the other employee said that she was fixing things. She then asked me if I wanted to know why I got limited, to which I said yes. In response in the snarkiest voice ever she said, "Then you'll have to take us to court."

I mean you don't have to like your job but I don't think you should talk to clients like that? Basically I want nothing to do with PayPal anymore.



Now for the reason that I use Square. Square (not cash) has charge back protection for all users of their system and as long as you follow their guidelines when processing your payments then you're covered up to a certain amount per month. Why are we using a service that HURTS ARTISTS. PayPal was designed around EBay for physical sales ONLY. There are better options out there with a multitude of features that makes it easier on both the artist and their clients. Square has an integration with other e-commerce services that easily allows you to fit your needs.

It works internationally, does direct depositing to your bank account, has tons of more features and services for people who provide a service. Just please take some time and take a look into the service yourself. Scams are becoming more and more common, we need to protect ourselves. If PayPal doesn't care about digital artists then we should STOP USING THEIR SERVICE!!

Edit: Thanks to Pinkaboo-Hime bringing to light something I missed, Square is somewhat international. "Card payment acceptance with the Square app is currently available in the US, Canada, Japan, Australia, and the United Kingdom. We currently don’t support payment card processing outside of these countries or in U.S. territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands."


BONUS: Square is used more commonly than you think, if you've ever gone to a business and paid on an iPad then you've used it. They also own the personal fund app called Cash ($Cash app) is only for US residents the last I checked.. It's similar to PayPal's Venmo and is for personal transfers and you can't do business through it. 


Square has so many features that make invoicing and selling easy. Way easier and more comfortable than PayPal and includes even more features that can tailor the service to fit your business. Please, please try it out in the future for your own sake, we don't need to be taking the risk of charge backs and other issues just because we use PayPal.



Square's integration with lots of other e-commerce services can benefit not only digital artists but are great for merch sales too!

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Below is a test invoice to show you all how it looks from the seller's perspective. It's quite nice actually, much nicer than PayPal's. You can request tips, deposits, allow a customer to save their CC info for next time, and add an attachment of your TOS very easily.


dd1n133-436986fc-09b9-4a18-af54-eb672407



Below this is the invoice from the buyer's perspective. When you click pay in the email you are redirected to a secure web page to actually process the payment.


dd1n23y-484cf1a3-8aca-4ce4-89a0-10eb2bd2


dd1n1ve-f0ec45f5-d352-48d5-967d-3ed8a19a



There's even a referral program through Square! Just as a little incentive for artists out there I'll link mine. 

squareup.com/i/LUKITSUNE0

If you wanna make an account as a seller, if you use that link you can get free payment processing! The free processing is up to $1000 and is good for 180 days.

Also that link can only be used by those in the US. Square doesn't yet support Cross-border free processing at this time.

If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer and if there's any other service that's an alternative to PayPal that's trustworthy feel free to reply here with it! Also if you've had any problems with PayPal please share your stories as well, let everyone be informed about the risk they're putting themselves in!

I don't know everything as I just started using this service so if anyone has information to correct me or to add about this service let me know as well!


EDIT: Payments accepted as of now are through debit/credit or via Google/Apple pay!

EDIT: If anyone using Stripe could give us more info on it that would be extremely helpful! As Square is not available in some countries!



aquapyrofan

I also want to add that Stripe has great customer support and I'd recommend asking them if you need help or have questions about policies.

Unlike some companies I could name...

WindWaken

aquapyrofan tysm for answering, those are really good things to know while im weighing my options

CakuPop

Lukitsune I am so glad that this was made because I've been looking into alternatives for a long time, especially in hopes to keep some anonymity. Paypal makes it difficult, even with documentations. I am currently using cash app but everyone who wants to work with me are suspicious of it as well as the way I currently use paypal (because of personal changes, I currently can't go into making it a business account or accept any service payment or ko-fi donations. Only friends/gift. Again, paypal makes things stupidly difficult, which some clients kind of refuse to understand even though I would be giving them a sample of their art first, before they pay any price.)

I'm sorry to ask these questions. Just that for the past two months, I've asked in forums, off-site because I don't know this place yet, and I've had no answers! From what I'm seeing with the invoice, Square doesn't show all of your personal details to the client, correct? And you could use your own Username, instead of real/full name with clients? Because that's the discomfort I've always had with paypal. Since I'm a person who does PWYW (basically like donating for art), I never went into the concept of it being a business. That's why I, try to, use cashapp with those who feel comfortable enough to. Would you recommend cashapp as an alternative, as well?

amernoir

I'm Australian, however, it won't let me change my country? Just wondering if it's on my end

Lukitsune

CakuPop Yeah PayPal sucks honestly, there's so many things they can restrict you for and it's completely unnecessary. But yeah, your full/real name isn't shown on the invoice, only your username! I like that about Square because it's makes me feel more at ease knowing I don't have to show my name. I myself don't use cashapp so I can't really rule in on it but I know it's not really used for business practices so if you ever go into a full business I'd recommend getting something more professional with protections. Since you're a PWYW artist though..... it's hard to say since it's only donations but cashapp seems safe to me from what I looked at. It sucks that you can't go through ko-fi though, that's the best thing for PWYW.

amernoir If you're trying to use my referral code from Australia it won't work. Currently Square only supports referral sharing with businesses within the same country :(  You'll still be able to make an account, you just can't use my free processing.

TheMenagerie

Lately, PayPal has taken to putting 21 day holds on payments I receive. I haven't had chargebacks or disputes at any time, and the only way for funds to be released to me is to ask buyers to confirm transactions on their end after they are completed. I've had a couple nasty buyers who refused to do this, and it left me in limbo, where technically I "have" the money, but since they won't confirm the transaction I will probably never receive payment. Normally it's released in 21 days, but in this case they selected to add a mailing address (even though I told them repeatedly to select no address needed) and when I contacted customer support they said nothing could be done unless I provide shipping details >_> there is literally nothing to fucking ship. When I told them my only option is to have th buyer to confirm the transaction, and the buyer refused, they went from an active representative replying to repeatedly copy and pasting the same generated reply that I have to provide shipping details, and money will be released within 3-7 days -headdesk- it's infuriating.

amernoir

I tried creating without a code but it still won't let me change ;(

Lukitsune

amernoir Hmm that's strange... As far as I know Australia is within Square's support. 

LLIANYA

If you don't mind me asking, may I know what type of ID you used to verify your identity? I had that issue as well around 2 years ago. I remember being told that there was some suspicious activity on my account (which I reckon was me adding a new e-mail address then removing the other one) so I had to send a photo of my passport. It was cleared easily though and I've had 0 problems since then.

I also actually want to know if people are still having problems with charge backs even if they use invoices and place their terms in the invoice. I've been using PayPal for commissions for almost 3 years now, have at least 1 commission per month and have yet to have any issue with charge backs. I don't know if I'm just really lucky or if what I've been doing with the invoice has been helping me tbh. It would honestly be good to be able to know other people's experiences with scamming (along with an understanding on what the artist is doing to prevent it) just so people will hopefully find ways to counter them and prevent them in the future.

As much as Square is interesting, there are still people like me who live in countries not mentioned above unfortunately.

Lukitsune

llianya I sent in my enhanced driver’s license as well did my friend, but I was the only one to get deemed suspicious for some reason. But I’m happy to hear that you haven’t really had any issues with chargebacks! You have really respectful customers ^ ^

CakuPop

Lukitsune I would have to completely agree on the paypal matter, which is sad. ; ; Although I'm a PWYW-er, I may definitely look into Square because I've had a few pm's mention that they would like to order from me but are wary cash app and my way of using paypal (even though I explained it's because of dumb limits, rip.) And they're just ridiculously strict to documentations just to have it all exposed to some stranger, especially for people who are in a long process of name changing. rip.

CakuPop

Also, if anyone else has any more insight about cashapp then I'd love to hear about it!

Camy

Thank you for this! I'm signing up with Square right now.

That lady telling you to take them to court all snarkily just shows they just hire just about anyone. The poor woman before had no idea what was going on and just said what she was trained to tell you. I don't care about the fees that Square takes since it'll be worth it away from Paypal. They should understand in this day and age that digital art IS a business too.

Stormeko

Sorry for asking something again. But I wanted to make double sure. I can use square without linking a bank or card right? Cause I don't have either.

Lukitsune

Stormchi You must have a bank account to have Square. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to get the money. Square doesn't hold the money like PayPal, they deposit it into your bank.