I'm not sure if this technically fits here because it's not about a particular buyer or seller BUT it is about a service that we as artists use. I think it's super important information for people to know. If this doesn't belong here I'm sure an admin will tell me and I'll remove it ^ ^
So I've had a number of people ask me why I've stopped using PayPal and started using Square so I figured I'd make a bulletin explaining my reasoning.
More and more I see cases of artists getting completely screwed over by PayPal because PayPal doesn't protect digital artists. I, unfortunately, was one of those people who got screwed over. My experience when dealing with PayPal representatives wasn't a pleasant one at all and goes as follows:
Feb. 14th- I notice that my PayPal account is limited and they wanted me to provide some legal documents to prove my identity. I gladly sent in copies of my legal documents and hoped to get the limitation removed so I could transfer my funds into my bank.
Feb. 18th- I get an email from PayPal saying that my account was permanently limited due to me apparently breaking some of their Acceptable Policy. Which I didn't mind you. It all seemed really strange as I've never gotten any charge backs or any disputes filed against me before. I was really confused as to why they would limit my account. I then check my account and it was true, I had been limited permanently. I then contacted customer support through the website and they just bs-ed me and threw the same copy, paste information that they did in their email. I then pushed more to try and find out how I possibly violated their policies. I never got a reply from them again, they just completely ignored me.
I waited a couple hours and still no reply, at this point I was really getting worried so I called PayPal through their phone number. Once I was on the line with a representative she was very helpful but didn't seem to know what she was doing. She asked me where I sold my art and I told her, I even provided proof that customers were getting my products. She said she would fix it and get back to me within 7-10 days.
Mar. 5th- After two weeks with no word from PayPal I decided to call customer support again. This time, the call was much shorter and much more upsetting. I told the woman about my situation and how I had waited for their call and she said, "I'm so sorry to hear that you had to wait but if you want your account unlimited you're going to have to have to take us to court." I was shocked at that, especially when the other employee said that she was fixing things. She then asked me if I wanted to know why I got limited, to which I said yes. In response in the snarkiest voice ever she said, "Then you'll have to take us to court."
I mean you don't have to like your job but I don't think you should talk to clients like that? Basically I want nothing to do with PayPal anymore.
Now for the reason that I use Square. Square (not cash) has charge back protection for all users of their system and as long as you follow their guidelines when processing your payments then you're covered up to a certain amount per month. Why are we using a service that HURTS ARTISTS. PayPal was designed around EBay for physical sales ONLY. There are better options out there with a multitude of features that makes it easier on both the artist and their clients. Square has an integration with other e-commerce services that easily allows you to fit your needs.
It works internationally, does direct depositing to your bank account, has tons of more features and services for people who provide a service. Just please take some time and take a look into the service yourself. Scams are becoming more and more common, we need to protect ourselves. If PayPal doesn't care about digital artists then we should STOP USING THEIR SERVICE!!
Edit: Thanks to Pinkaboo-Hime bringing to light something I missed, Square is somewhat international. "Card payment acceptance with the Square app is currently available in the US, Canada, Japan, Australia, and the United Kingdom. We currently don’t support payment card processing outside of these countries or in U.S. territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands."
BONUS: Square is used more commonly than you think, if you've ever gone to a business and paid on an iPad then you've used it. They also own the personal fund app called Cash ($Cash app) is only for US residents the last I checked.. It's similar to PayPal's Venmo and is for personal transfers and you can't do business through it.
Square has so many features that make invoicing and selling easy. Way easier and more comfortable than PayPal and includes even more features that can tailor the service to fit your business. Please, please try it out in the future for your own sake, we don't need to be taking the risk of charge backs and other issues just because we use PayPal.
Square's integration with lots of other e-commerce services can benefit not only digital artists but are great for merch sales too!
Below is a test invoice to show you all how it looks from the seller's perspective. It's quite nice actually, much nicer than PayPal's. You can request tips, deposits, allow a customer to save their CC info for next time, and add an attachment of your TOS very easily.
Below this is the invoice from the buyer's perspective. When you click pay in the email you are redirected to a secure web page to actually process the payment.
There's even a referral program through Square! Just as a little incentive for artists out there I'll link mine.
If you wanna make an account as a seller, if you use that link you can get free payment processing! The free processing is up to $1000 and is good for 180 days.
Also that link can only be used by those in the US. Square doesn't yet support Cross-border free processing at this time.
If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer and if there's any other service that's an alternative to PayPal that's trustworthy feel free to reply here with it! Also if you've had any problems with PayPal please share your stories as well, let everyone be informed about the risk they're putting themselves in!
I don't know everything as I just started using this service so if anyone has information to correct me or to add about this service let me know as well!
EDIT: Payments accepted as of now are through debit/credit or via Google/Apple pay!
EDIT: If anyone using Stripe could give us more info on it that would be extremely helpful! As Square is not available in some countries!
It looks like PayPal actually does cover digital goods now?
As well as there being an option in invoices to mark your product as digital goods
I'm not exactly sure how recent it is, but the first screenshot is taken from here:
[LINK]
It isn't rolled out in all countries though. I know from a friend that PayPal Mexico doesn't have the option to mark products as digital goods, so it may only be a U.S thing as of now !
Pinkaboo-Hime Wow that's great actually, that's the first I've heard of this! Hopefully it's implemented at its best and maybe people will be less wary of having to use it ;;
o)-( for sure
For those who still want to use PayPal or can't yet use Square and are stuck with PayPal for now, this is how I currently format my invoices
In the first blank, I put the username of the customer and in the second I list the website.
So for example, if I was selling to myself it would be "By purchasing, the buyer confirms to be Pinkaboo-Hime on Toyhou.se".
This might help when providing screencaps for proof of purchase. I would also advise that upon delivering commissions/adopts, you ask the buyer to confirm they have received it and that is to their liking o/
Pinkaboo-Hime Last I checked digital goods are NOT covered by seller protection, even though there's now an option for you to select digital goods in the invoice. Telling paypal outright that the transaction is not covered by seller protection with that might encourage them to just rule in your buyer's favor immediately without consulting you if there's a chargeback!
Aah, you're definitely right ! I tested it out, and they still aren't covered by seller protection !
In the event of a chargeback (which is done through a user's bank or card issuer, so paypal has no control over it), sellers won't be protected.
However in the event of a paypal dispute (which I believe is the process if your buyer paid via paypal balance), sellers have a chance of winning even if it is a digital product !
I looked through their dispute process, and it does mention digital products "If you sold a digital good, we may request evidence that the buyer downloaded your product."
So the information above is still useful, but only in the event of a paypal dispute. Not a chargeback unfortunately.
Ok so update on the double charge, apparently the only thing we can think of is the fact that the artist's account was new and Square found it suspicious that they were bringing in money so quickly, so it did a double transaction on 95% of the people who purchased as like a "hold" until one of the payments cleared without issue.
I've been debating on switching to something other than paypal for a while. And it seems with their new policy change I may be trying Square now. Once this goes into effect (May 7, 2019 I believe) sellers will be out the paypal fees on top of the refund amount when giving refunds to people. I hope paypal goes back on this since feel this could be abused pretty easily and it just feels greedy on their part. Though, even if they do, I think it would still be best to try out other alternatives for all. Hopefully Square gets more international in the future!
I tend to work with larger prices, so for me, I would be out a little over $8 per transaction if they were to keep the fee I'm charged. I think the fee is 30 cents but you got the seller fee back currently? Granted I'm not 100% sure on that as I've never had to refund something on the lower end. It's certainly not an issue unless you're refunding often and I agree it does seem like a good thing for the lower priced commissions!
I guess it's more of an issue for me since I deal with illustrations that are in the hundreds which could be deemed as more prone to clients needing a refund since they are a bigger investment initially (though that is not a common thing of course). Just me being overly-worrisome I feel after looking back. It's irksome for me, but I've been wanting to move to a new payment system so it might be the kick I personally needed lol
Magnetarium That's exactly what happened to me and I was confused as to why all of a sudden I had to confirm my identity. They won't give you the money until they get your information which is understandable but annoying since it's been so many years.