#thoughts on TOS stuff again

Posted 3 months, 10 days ago by lal

i want to stress the importance of having written terms of service, both to designers/artists and anyone who owns designs from other people

there are a lot of things that are very common courtesy, i consider general trade/sale policies like not reselling for more than you received them for to be general common practice, but it's important to remember that none of these things can be enforced or regulated without a written TOS.

i had someone that i traded a design to come to me a few days ago saying that the designer was claiming that the character wasn't allowed to be traded and demanded it back/revoked it, but they had no written TOS and had never given verbal instruction to me that i was never allowed to trade them or give them away (they included gifting, by the way), even though this was a character i received rightfully in a design trade. the person i had traded to sent it back without question but, to anyone who might be reading this, if a designer ever comes to you demanding a design to be revoked, you under no circumstances have to abide by this if they don't have an explicit written TOS stating that they're allowed to revoke characters at any time, for any reason, blacklist or not. especially if you had already purchased or drawn art for this character, if there is no written TOS, that character will rightfully belong to you until you trade or sell them to someone else. (note the revocation rule on toyhouse)

basically speaking: if anyone comes to you trying to enforce a TOS policy, if it is not something that is publicly written out in a means that is accessible to you, that is not something you have to abide by. This does not mean be an asshole, by the way ! you should still be understanding and do things that are common courtesy and polite and reasonable, but if you ever feel that someone is being unfair to you and trying to enforce something you were never even given the chance to agree to, your gut is probably right

that being said, also be vigilant of people who abuse their terms of service and change it suddenly to get what they want. anyone who has a TOS of their own, i recommend having a "last updated" date listed on your TOS somewhere and keep it up to date, AND announce changes in your TOS so anyone who's already agreed to it has the opportunity to read the new terms and keep up to date on it

if a designer updates their TOS to say they have a right to revoke characters, and you owned a character from them before this policy was added, you are under no obligation to agree to it or abide by it. this isn't something that a designer can abruptly add to their terms of service so they can steal back all of the characters they've ever designed, especially not without some level of compensation involved if the person had rightfully traded for, or purchased, said character. federal law covers that you can enforce your TOS without explicit agreement only if the terms are fair, things like revoking a character abruptly is unfair as you're taking away someone's rightful property away from them, and is seen as abuse of TOS and deeply deceptive and poor business practice. both parties have to explicitly agree to things like character revocation in order for it to be seen as fair and justified

it is important to be VERY thorough with your terms of service. don't be afraid of getting lengthy, and make sure you include everything to avoid people finding loopholes in your wording or something you forgot to include

on both ends: do not let people abuse your TOS, and don't let people abuse you with their TOS. things like TOS policies aren't things i commonly see people talk about publicly and it's something i really want to stress the importance of if you're a character designer or artist doing trades, adoptables, or commissions. even if you're not especially "popular" or are younger, it is NEVER too soon to set up a solid TOS, because you never know when someone will come along and do something you don't agree with with your work. take your rights as a creator seriously as soon as you're able to! and again, as a consumer of other people's work, it's important to educate yourself on your rights as a consumer to avoid being abused with deceptive terms of service

Comments


Your reminding me I need to sit down and write out a fully fleshed out TOS !! Especially since I’ve sold more designs recently!

I was planning to put it in my carrd but I never finished that either haha

( I wouldn’t hold anyone to terms I don’t have written , don’t worry ) 

lal

DO ITTTTTT the sooner the better ofc. it makes your life a whole lot more easier i promise LOL

It's ridiculous to me that people will sit there and blatantly ignore an artist's TOS; it's funny to me because if you were say, a huge company, there'd be massive legal repercussions and lawyers at the ready to tear them down if they didn't comply.

lal

LITERALLY!!! people treat it like just because it's on a more relaxed/casual platform like toyhouse it makes TOS policies less valid, but self-employed artists are small businesses of their own and their TOS is just as important as a large corporation's

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lal

IM SO GLAD TO HEAR THAT!!! it's something i've had a lot of thoughts about for the past couple weeks so i wanted to spread my thoughts too lol!

this isn't something i can give a concise response to unfortunately, in general i've kind of never agreed with character revocation in general and it's something that i believe you can only do if you tell the person you're working with ahead of time "hey, this is in my TOS, i need your verbal agreement" in order to actually enforce it. you're welcome to discuss revocation with the person you want to revoke FROM, but they are under no obligation to agree

character revocation in general is a very touchy subject because it also isn't something that toyhouse staff touches upon or enforces at ALL, and you have to provide explicit proof that the person agreed outright to your revocation terms in order for them to be valid . it's something i'm not fully sure on how it works yet, but in general i think it's probably safest that you don't try and enforce a revocation policy unless you tell someone they're breaking your TOS and they ignore you OR you offer some level of compensation/mutually agree to something

so idk, take this with a grain of salt LOL i don't fully know how it works 

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lal

YEAH SAME HERE... i have it in my TOS too but it's usually only under terms of extreme violations, i'm not going to revoke a character for minor things like reselling or anything like that, but explicit violations that are genuinely dangerous or harmful is where my policy mostly stands tbh . but even then i don't even know if i'd be able to enforce it unless i outright tell everyone who's ever owned designs or art by me "hey, i need your verbal agreement to my tos thanks ^_^!!!"

I WISH TOO LOL. it's rough but i make due with the information i have at least

this is super helpful bc ive been scared of people like. doing oh sorry, if you dont want this character trade it back even though the character has .... already been traded ? so this is a really good reference in order to stop. that from happening bc i Do own a lot of characters that are by other people :sob: (im realizing how confusin this sounds but its similar to the example you used of the artist saying that they didnt want that character to be traded, only in the instance of the character only being allowed to be traded back to the original owner)

lal

HAPPY TO HELP! i was never expecting any of the designers that i own work from to ever do something like this which has really sparked some level of urgency into talking about TOS stuff, i don't feel like a lot of people know a lot about the legal standpoint of it and only see it as a base level of "rules", but creators can't just create these crazy unfair terms and enforce them and insert a permanent level of ownership into all of the work they create. like i doubt anyone on toyhouse is going to straight up take someone to court over broken TOS but if that ever did happen, the court isn't going to be on your side if you say "well in my TOS it says you have to give it back to me ://"

VHGFJDSGFHJKAGFHD,, at the rate that people are so petty/just .... plain immature about certain things i would not doubt any instance of someone going to court over a broken tos :sob: but it truly is really helpful to know the legal standpoint of all this i gotta keep this in my back pocket for sure

lal

NO ABSOLUTELY LOL, toyhouse is insane, but ofc <3 i'm very happy to help keep people informed and aware. consumers have rights too!!!!