Taking Feedback/Suggestions for Service Reviews

Posted 5 years, 6 months ago by admin

New reviews/feedback feature?

295 Votes Replace the Service Reviews forum with a new Reviews feature. It'd be easier to use and will help cut down on drama.
221 Votes Don't need a new Reviews feature, it'll be overly intrusive. Just keep the Service Reviews forum.
98 Votes Remove the Service Reviews forum and don't replace it with anything, it's harmful and PSAs should stay in bulletins.
44 Votes Other

I've been looking over this forum recently and it's not really what I imagined when I first put it up... I do like the idea of a public space for transparent discussion of business transactions, but it feels counter-intuitive (eg. not everyone'll check for a PSA before doing business with a user) and at times overly hostile and personal. 

I originally got the idea for a reviews forum from BJD trading forums, where negative reviews are just a thread you make when you receive substandard service or products from a user (or don't receive it at all), and they were more like small posts about single transactions, rather than big compilations of evidence about why the viewer shouldn't do business with so and so. I think it'd be healthy to try moving towards a model where users feel comfortable just commenting on individual good or bad experiences you've had without having to make a case against a user's character. If a user has a large quantity of a certain type of review from a bunch of people, a viewer can more or less imagine what working with them would be like and draw conclusions from there, and it prevents the responsibility of managing a large PSA from falling onto a single individual. 

To that end, I'm currently fiddling with the idea of replacing the reviews forum with a reviews feature attached instead to each individual user's page, where users can leave reviews and comments. This would be intended to be a replacement for the Service Reviews forum. It has some upsides and downsides, so I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts. 


Basic outline of the feature:

  • When posting in the commerce section (Art Marketplace, Design Marketplace, Adoption Center), or when sending a PM, a user's review ratio is shown next to their username badge (this would be a percentage, 0% for all negative reviews, 100% for all positive reviews). This links to their reviews page.  
  • Any user (blocked or not) can leave positive or negative feedback. 
    • All reviews have to be directly relevant to a single business transaction (maximum of one review per business transaction). Some form of proof has to be provided (eg. a link to the completed product / traded character, or a link to a thread, or screenshot of the transaction or receipt).
    • Only the reviewer and the reviewee can reply to each review, but all replies are publicly viewable. 
    • Reviews can be deleted, closed, or edited by the user who posted the review.
Pros:
  • I feel like it makes more sense than PSAs; it's immediately visible as a warning when doing business with a user, but also doesn't bring additional outside attention to the matter like PSAs do, which can lead to witch hunts or harassment. 
  • Easier to browse feedback attached to a specific user (instead of having to search the Reviews forum), and encourages independent users to come forward with their own feedback, rather than having a single person take on the responsibility of collating a large PSA. 
  • Would encourage people to leave positive reviews which is nice... positivity is good...
Cons:
  • Wouldn't support off-site users.
  • I'm not sure if having a rating attached to an account would make people uncomfortable; this is the reason I specifically don't want it visible as part of a user's profile page, and want to keep it to specific areas of the site. I understand that it could create stress for users who don't want to see it, but being able to turn off the feature defeats the point of having it at all, since people with poor reviews could just turn it off. 
    • There could be an option to hide ratings from the site so you don't have to see or think about them, but other users would still be able to see your rating? 

Regarding Moderation:

I've received some requests lately for reviews/PSAs to be more strictly moderated, which I imagine will also apply to any new review feature, so regardless of outcome, I'll be looking at revising the rules for reviews.

From the threads I've reviewed, the main issue seems to be people who present one business transaction with evidence, then use it to piggyback irrelevant accusations, such as personal disagreements, proof-less transactions, or speculation. This is toeing the line on breaking the rules, so I'll be adding another clause clarifying that every section/paragraph of any PSA must be directly relevant to a business dispute with proof, and not just arbitrarily tacked onto the end of a PSA. 

If you'd like to see additional moderation for PSAs or reviews, please suggest any additional rules you think would help improve the quality of the forum (or any future features we may add). 


Please do chip in with any thoughts or suggestions, either via the thread or by filing a ticket if you're not comfortable speaking in public. Thanks as always for your patience and help. 

flylegs

I'm gonna go against the rest of the thread here with my opinion as someone who buys art, not sells it.

I think having some sort of built-in review system is good. Any website you go to that has a store front, a website where you can spend money, has some sort of review feature so that buyers can avoid people who are known to give subpar or bad service. Why is art any different? Someone said something like, "it will put artists at the mercy of reviewers" and...yeah, just like literally everyone else who sells goods and services to people. They aren't just reviewers, they're customers that paid you money, and deserve to have their complaints heard. I don't mean to come off as unsympathetic to the artist, but I personally feel that whenever these sorts of questions are brought up, these review systems opinions are almost always skewed in favour of protecting the artist above all costs and forgetting about the people who pay money for goods and services who can get screwed over just as easily.

As @Dunsparce above me said, while any review system can be manipulated unfairly, it's rare for this to actually happen if the system is implemented correctly with fail-safes involved. The ability to dispute a review that the artist believes to be in bad faith, for example. Another example would be a straightforward recommend or don't system (as in no bad reviews, only recommendations.) Like literally any other website on the internet with a rating system, people will learn to take it with a grain of salt and, most importantly, make their own judgement on who to trust and who not to trust.

Many people on TH don't ever touch the forums and have no interest to. I myself rarely check the forums. I would say a majority of users I talk to don't hang out on the forums, and mostly use TH to commission artists and keep their OCs in one place, myself included. I really think a review system would help protect these people from getting stuck in a crappy situation.

As for a rating being attached to a user's profile being seen at all times - that can be adjusted too. Maybe if a full commissions system gets implemented some day, the rating/reviews only show up if someone tries to apply for a commission using whatever system got put in. Perhaps if the two were to be implemented and tied together, you could further cut down on troll reviews by making it so that ONLY people who have actually used the artist's commission system on TH can leave a review. Sure, it cuts out people who are new to TH or commissioned off site, but it still covers a large swath of people.

As for public comments on reviews, I think the better idea is to force arbitration via PMs. Some kind of system where no one can reply to the comments or see the comments except for the first two - the person posting the review (who has the ability to change their rating at any time) and the artist being able to respond by saying something like "we have worked out the issue over DM!" Much like Google reviews or Etsy reviews. This cuts down drastically on public drama and forces people to talk to one another in private to work things out between themselves.

Sidenote: if everyone prefers to keep reviews to the PSA forums/threads, then I think a cohesive system might help cut back on some drama. See artists-beware on livejournal/their website; for years now this has been my go-to community for artist reviews. The moderation is strict, the rules are clear and concise, there's a template for all reviews (which some, but very few, people ignore), professionalism is a MUST (reviews with cursing and personal attacks are removed), and all around it's a good way to run an artist review site, I feel.

Just my two cents!

Yes I'm a year late to the party. D'oh.

DroctorGoo

What this forum needs is more moderators.   

mixmast3r

^ this

MountainCat

How about making a separate option for each person to create their commission info tab separately from profile and characters? There could be a review option that would be seen only when you check that tab instead of the reviews being seen just as you open someone's overall profile.

Kiakamill

I think it's be great to be able to see if someone is good to commission from or not just with the positive or negative thing next to their name it would help me more easily gauge who to commission or trade with and easily check out their reviews cause I can't take the time to scroll through this whole reviews page and find who to work with or not and I sometimes forget this whole thing is even here

goldneko

Putting more resources into moderation of this forum doesn't seem to be helpful in the long run. Personally, I don't use this forum a lot due to the ongoing lack of moderation on the drama posts and non-business focused PSAS. (Like stated before, drama about someone "copying" someone with no evidence, and groomers, pedos, and so on. People here have been overly toxic for the wrong reasons.) 

I do not think adding more moderation on an already failing system will help. It will simply just prolong it's existence but not better the quality of experience.

I would love the idea of service reviews but ONLY for the people who use this site to sell/buy art. Some people only use this for storage, of course. Perhaps a "commission seller" option? It could be turned on and off when you're accepting commissions but the reviews stay on the profile.

In order to avoid abuse of this system, moderation should be focused on spam or false reviews. And/or purchases be made via some gate system so someone can't make reviews on a certain person unless a confirmed transaction has been made.

Service review forums have no use in this community. It just spurs up drama and should be narrowed down to PSAS on harmful BUSSINESS TRANSACTIONS. (not just drama or harmful/rude people.) Resources should be aimed towards moderating the people who actually do use this platform as forms of income with reviews on their profile.

tl;dr the service review forum should be changed to a PSA only forum purely for poor business transactions, and the service reviews should be a feature for people selling their art with a gate to avoid false reviews or harassment unless purchase has actually happened between the two.

sableward

as a previous user said -

 I really think this forum should be removed and left to personal bulletins. Too many are about people's feelings rather than facts and no one can seem to agree on what is considered "business"

its just becoming a slinging match and PSA owners are just using it to sling mud a good portion of the time rather than trying to resolve issues.

Beta_

my honest opinion is that the service reviews section, while it sounded good on paper, it's extremely flawed in practice, and we all witnessed it blow up in our face.

now, there's an easy way and a hard way

the easy way is to just nuke the whole thing (fallout reference) and never do anything like this ever again, since the community can't be trusted with a system like this. (i would like to acknowledge that i am aware of good-faith reviews. however, the system as it stands has no safeguards to prevent the shitty ones from popping up)

the hard way involves backend work. i propose a system similar to how steam does reviews, where users that have ALREADY bought from another can leave reviews on that particular user.

i'm aware that this was proposed by someone two posts up^^

how this would work is that there would be a separate section on the profile, called the "Marketplace". from there, users can post listings of commissions or other services, complete with images to showcase examples. then the user can link their payment options so that it's possible to initiate transactions directly from the site. this is important so the authentication works.

what is the authentication? well think about this: how does toyhouse distribute premium to hundreds of uses that pay for it directly through the site? obviously it's not done manually otherwise there would be complaints left and right about people not getting premium even after paying for it. it's done automatically, which means such technology could apply to the marketplace, to ensure that the user submitting the review actually paid for the product. this prevents false reviews.

now, for the concern that users that primarily use th to store characters (like me) will have to be subject to such system, the review system will not be used for users that have never used the marketplace feature. if a user without reviews posts in a commerce related section, their score will show up as "N/A". (yes, i'm saying that displaying review scores  in commerce sections is a good idea, but only if the needed safeguards to prevent abuse of the review system are set in place).

just my two cents on this issue.

ClyncyeRudje

gonna be blunt, like half of the threads in service reviews i see at any given moment have nothing to do with business. even if the section is kept, moderating it properly will require so much time that it wouldn't be worth it compared to getting rid of it and either just purging it wholesale or replacing it with a proper review feature.

RoseCoffee

linking this thread here, same sorta thing being discussed

https://toyhou.se/~forums/5867.service-reviews/450854.no-more-service-reviews