PSA Nilthenihilist: Resolved (3.05)

cindyjeans Hello and thank you for your input! I have no experience with e-checks and this was very informative. I can't confirm whether or not that was the case with Nil but, I don't think any money will be coming in as he had confirmed in the screenshots above that it never actually went through. I don't know if it's possible to send money to a cancelled invoice but, regardless, if that were to somehow happen I would definitely refund him. I agree with Pepperly's comment and on a personal note think that the double-checking should have been done around the day that I first informed him I didn't get the payment one day after he claimed to have sent it. 

I wish I could have communicated with him further in private since I felt that it was really only the beginning of our messages in my eyes. I felt that if this was truly a mistake on his end we could have at least amended the part in which I had concluded he was lying to me. Even if it ended poorly I don't think a PSA would have even been needed if it wasn't for the copyright claim followed by the block in all honesty. In regards to parts where I had shown screenshots of paid vs unpaid invoices, I included that so that I could show, from my end, that I did not jump straight to conclusions and tried to investigate the matter before I decided to cancel and approach him.

Alter I did not know that and will keep that in mind for the future. Thank you for hoping it gets sorted!

Bruja I really like your advice as well as your analysis of my communication! Thinking back on it I tried very hard to word that I felt he had lied to me the best I could but seeing his reaction made me realize the error in my words. I can see now with how you would have approached it with the sample sentence, that that would have been a much better way to address my concerns. I will remember this in the future and keep in mind how I choose to approach things of this nature;; I'm glad at the very least that the design is not able to be tied to his as many others have said, it is a huge relief. As for the true resolution, I hope one day we would be able to come to something like or close to it since I really wish him no ill will at the end of all this. The miscommunication is exactly as you said at the bottom for me at least. I am worried about him claiming the design and being unable to reach him I feel like this is the only thing I can do to prevent that. 

I hope it's okay to point out that he's selling a character for $50 that was sold for $12? The original artist makes it clear on their front page they do not allow resells, let alone for reselling far beyond it's worth.  I'm not sure if they paid more to the person who originally bought it, but without extra art it's a little worrying as they have the character listed as created by them, as well as credits themselves for the art.

The other listed here was bought for $6 originally and is from the same artist that doesn't allow resells of their designs.

The two originals can be seen here and here.

I've reported them and am reaching out to let them know that the OA doesn't allow selling and asking them to update credits.  I'm hoping this is a mistake but thought it should be noted as it doesn't shed a very good light on them possibly trying to use your design in future.

Everoesea
Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it. I used to do the extra cautious thing of never using the money before completion but, since my past customers have been so good to me I had actually discontinued that practice. After hearing about the method again I think I will return to it because I'd like to follow the advice given to me here as best I can to avoid any future problems. It's as you said, it's better to know and be prepared! Thank you as well for the warning about the possibility of friends claiming his right to the design. I'll try to be on the lookout for that as well; I'm really hoping it doesn't happen. I really can't express how grateful towards your kind words and advice as long as the advice from everyone here. I hope everything turns out alright in the end as well!

SquidsInTheAttic
Oh wow, I was completely unaware he was doing something like that. That's very concerning;;. It makes me incredibly sad to learn about this because it makes me more anxious about the design being taken by him and then putting himself as the creator of it. Because I still have him blocked, I am unable to see if that issue has been taken care of by now. I would really appreciate if you could keep me updated. I'm also hoping this was a terrible mistake;;. Thank you once again for taking the time to investigate everything. I'm still relatively new to making PSA's but I think if it isn't resolved after private correspondences between you both I think it's worth adding on to this PSA with your permission of course!

I'm glad I looked as well.  I had looked at their trades before and thought one was very cute, but after coming back to their page saw on the front that they didn't draw at all so I was super confused why both pieces were credited to them so I just wen to the DA on the reference pages and discovered he hadn't made them in the first place.  It only took a minute or two to find the originals so it sent up some red flags that they're reselling for so much and ignoring the terms of the artist.

I'll for sure be keeping an eye on it, though they haven't been on in a few days.  If they don't come on by monday or tuesday I'll pm them on deviantart and hope for a reply there.  I commented on the characters themselves as I personally find PMs spike my anxiety when I don't expect them.  I've saved the characters and my comments just in case.  If it comes to it you're welcome to post them up, but I'm hoping it's just a mistake on their part.

I agree with Bruja on the miscommunication. Instead of talking to him about what happened on his end after calling paypal and doing test invoices, you instantly believed that he was lying to you. It's like if somebody tried to send you a check through the mail, even driving to the post office to do it. The, when it doesn't arrive, you accuse the other person that the check never existed in the first place, rather than considering it could have been lost in the mail.
Of course he got very mad - he was just as lost as you the single time you mentioned payment not being processed, and agreed to wait two days. He wasn't even given a chance to explain himself before you accused him of lying about payment later. Next time - if there is one - don't be confrontational and dismissive right away. You've got to at least hear the other side of the story first. Payment issues on the third party's/bank's part happen all the time, assuming the worst out of everyone ends up with hurt feelings. I sincerely hope you guys end up working this out soon, both of you seem very excited about this design at the least.

If you're going to be reselling the character design, the hairstyle is not the only thing I would change. Try changing color and a few other aspects of the clothing, maybe going for a different theme than ice. It would distance from this character Nil, since the custom is designed off of his own ideas of his character. Most likely he'll be going to somebody else for that custom with the same designs in mind because his character itself won't change. It's his character, and his design concepts.

You'll need to change your design so that it's familiar, but doesn't match up. Maybe change the armor design, or alter the cloak. Make it look like a long-lost brother of Nil instead of just a Nil with a different combover.

Bad news. 

After informing them of the original creator they admitted to knowing one was by the artist on the reference page and, despite the second also having the same name, claimed it was done by their friend and linked me to someone else's toyhouse.  It is right on the front of the artists page they don't allow people to resell their work as well as on their commission info and most of the adopts and is easy to find.  I linked them to the creators toyhouse and rudely corrected me that it was endber, who's toyhouse was the one I linked.  Overall they were rude and aggressive with me.  I'm going to be filing a report against them with the screenshots I took.  They have blocked me and I won't be attempting to bypass that so I'll have to rely on others to keep an eye on things.

it's very likely, based on the screenshots SquidsInTheAttic took with the default toyhouse icon and the little "X" marks, that the characters mentioned were hidden.
this is also evidenced by the fact that their toyhouse has 6 characters uploaded, with only 3 being visible to the public. idk what the extra character is but shrug.

he's hiding them, but i wouldn't be surprised if he unhides them eventually and continues trying to sell them. overall very shady behavior, and i would notify the original creator of the characters immediately.

SquidsInTheAttic

he's taken down or privated the characters. i'm unsure how many there were before, but there's only three visible now. both the ones that you linked to and screenshotted are gone

edit: vampyric got there before me! +1 to their suggestion of contacting the original creator if you have not already done so

vampyric ktensei

I've contacted staff and seeing what they're going to do first.  The original artist has dealt with this a lot so I'd rather not stress them out with this if I don't have to.

FreeFallingUp13
Hello! I mentioned before that I agreed the way I worded it towards him was not appropriate. If I could go back and change it I would but, I can't. The only thing I can do now is move forward with the situation and learn from my own mistakes! Thank you for your good wishes in the situation!

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. There is no colour on the design, it is a black and white sketch with the only colour being the eyes! I agreed a few comments back that I would be changing that sapphire colour along with the hair because it didn't feel right for me to keep that on the design after the fallout! Even so, if I rendered it fully in black and white as it was, those colours do not match his character's colours or pallet. It was not designed to a certain formula and there was nothing specific that is tied to the design that we agreed on apart from the hairstyle and eye colour. It was designed off the form he gave me, which was vague as I intended, for me to come up with my own interpretation! I can't agree with changing the armor either;;. I based it off fantasy grunge, which both of those themes are seen as a sample answer for themes on my form from the commission bulletin. I didn't want anything specific because I wanted freedom in the design. I wanted to limit it to two but because I wanted to keep the hair originally, I allowed him one more specific thing which was the hair.

The shapes for the armor, such as the shoulder blades, for example, did not come from any visual inspiration he gave me. As for visuals, he only gave me the Revenant video. The only thing he wanted me to include from that was the oozing mist and icicles from the skin, which I did not include as I didn't feel I could really represent a fully burning (or iced over) body. The mist I did include is on the cloak, which he never asked for. The ice I included on the chains which, again, was not something he requested in detail. All of that including the armor, bones, and general design apart from the hair, the eye colour, and the direction of the theme came from my own imagination based on the form I had him fill out.

Just to clarify a bit, I'm not saying he cannot go to another artist with the same form or ideas in his head, but I specifically do not want him to use the image I drew above; not even as a reference for a new custom. I would also not appreciate it if he used the exact image, as it is, to commission other artists as he does not own the design. I don't own the rights to the idea, of course, that is his! But I feel I do own the right to this combination of design and how I chose to interpret it for that piece. Nonetheless, despite our disagreements, I appreciate your feedback!

SquidsInTheAttic
I'm very sorry you had to experience a negative reaction like that, I would never have expected this type of behaviour from him at all. Thank you for the screenshots, I will add this to the PSA as vampyric and ktensei pointed out that the designs are hidden and not actually removed which is very concerning. I'm relieved to know mods were contacted about the situation; It does sound like the artist goes through this a lot based on their DeviantART;;. I would like to let them know, however, that this has happened to their design in case they have a blacklist of sorts that they may want to add him to for violation of their rules.

If anyone has contacted the original artists (Chickolates) I please implore you to tag me here and let me know! I will wait a full day before contacting them just in case someone beat me to it! I don't want to flood their inbox with the same bad news over and over because that is distressing. Thank you so much in advance! I will keep you all updated if I am the first one to reach out to the original artist.

I've gone ahead and included your experience to the PSA; Thank you once again for sharing it with me. SquidsInTheAttic
Please let me know if I missed anything or was unable to properly convey your experience, and I will be happy to fix it when I have time again!

I think it should be added that they were aware of the original artist of Losille was Enbear and still had himself listed at the creator and also would have been able to find out that the design wasn't available to be sold and what its worth was.

You know, I actually almost sold one of my adopts to them, and luckily I accepted another offer after they hadn't replied for a few days. Now I'm a bit concerned on what might have happened to my design if they would have been the one to buy it because they may have just ended up selling it or claiming that they made it TvT This whole situation rn is very sketchy and I'm glad that you made this PSA over this issue, otherwise I would have been none the wiser >> I'm sorry that you had such a horrible encounter with them and I honestly hope you have a better experience with doing customs AND people in the future OTL

I just contacted the original artist, thank you everyone for your patience! I'll be sure to keep you all updated on the situation.

SquidsInTheAttic
I amended the PSA to include that, thank you once again for all of your help and diligence!

Phazed_
I'm glad you were able to go with a different offer! I truly appreciate you being glad that I made this PSA and for your kind words ;o; I hope so as well.