PSA: Snoberry and her Piers

@foxbean It can be looked up without Paypal but due to all of this having Paypal's direct involvement (and as far as I'm aware, Mori has never put her real name anywhere) then that's when it becomes a Paypal issue. Few people are against blacklists but listing emails can lead to unwanted spam and harassment which is why most people list Usernames only on public and keep emails in private.

_{I'd be potentially worried about someone finding her Facebook and harassing her on there from just this little bit of info being leaked. Maybe an extreme thought, but Facebook did previously have that capability a few years ago.}

As a side note and personal opinion, putting someone's name up seems rather spiteful. Whether what she did was wrong or not isn't the kicker for me as I don't agree with charging back unless you can't get in contact or a product isn't delivered _{(From what I have seen here correct me if I'm wrong, the product was delivered it just wasn't wanted anymore or was intended for a trade, so other routes could have been taken)} It's just that Sno seems so willing to place names and emails up under the guise of protecting the community. This was a one-time chargeback from a bad situation that couldn't get in touch with the maker. It wasn't some major reoffender.

Just personally I think all of this could have been and should be handled differently from all parties involved. Change to Usernames instead of emails for major chargebacks, resell the design next time instead of charging back. Most importantly for everyone, step away and take a breather before acting. A lot of this seems like really rushed moves that just horrifically escalated a situation.

_{Also a reminder to everyone to keep the name calling and fighting down to a minimum cause the thread can get locked for off topic and such...}

@foxbean , I don't know how what I said could be taken as hostile, but if you feel I'm being hostile towards you then I apologize.

I said it was stupid because of what you said: "Either way, It happened"

Here's what I take from that:
They automatically believed the first person's story, not even considering mine.
They had no intent to look into the situation and figure out what really happened.

After i offered to provide proper evidence that I hadn't claimed anything. I'll say this again. I charged back because of your staff claiming I couldn't reclaim my character after I'd received no payment for it and after the other person that I was gonna buy the co-own piece from said she'd reclaim it, it seemed like a common thing. If you say that what she did was anymore right than what I did, you're picking favorites. 

I'll repeat myself: if I can't keep a character that I paid for, why wouldn't I want a refund? Why wouldn't I want my money back for something that I wasn't even allowed to keep? I did not want to communicate anymore with ANYONE from that group, so that put bets off. I was going to reclaim the character and keep it as mine. But after saying I couldn't keep it, I wanted my money back. I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'm saying clearly isn't getting acknowledged so I'll keep saying it. 

mori I do feel you are being hostile towards me. And, You are bouncing around different stories. Which makes what you are saying hard to understand.

"After i offered to provide proper evidence that I hadn't claimed anything. I'll say this again. I charged back because of your staff claiming I couldn't reclaim my character after I'd received no payment for it and after the other person that I was gonna buy the co-own piece from said she'd reclaim it"

You could reclaim the character from the person if the art had not been done, but if you chargebacked sno, you had to relinquish all ownership of it. Anyone who claimed it needed to. IF you were told otherwise it was wrong to be told otherwise. I personally did not see that statement but I have also been busy with offlone things. If you wish to talk more about these things and see if we can attempt to resolve it completely or even If you could just help me understand the point of view you are at right now i'd like to talk about it. I dont want to muck up your post with the chit chat.

AsylumPatient I may talk to her about other options for her next banlist, but the issue we find with usernames is that people can very easily change their username. And the same is said for emails. Which is why names were being put up. This happened with the notorious scammer(s?) silentpoodleoops/suchiii/ghostiemvn/chase &emilia/nymph. So really hearing that makes it near impossible for us to actually WARN against scammers, theives, and double traders without exposing a name.

@Foxbean Username + link, if they change their name it should update it. Problem with that too is that if they change their name a lot then they might use different PP accounts, change them, make new ones etc etc. If it's not verified (Linked to a bank account) it might be possible to use a fake name on it as well. All in all scammers will find ways around it so it's a matter of being vigilant and learning how to read their patterns of behavior. _{I always looked for speech patterns, specific ways they denied things, little misspellings etc. People always go back to their natural patterns of things when they're comfortable.}

AsylumPatient The only issue is that a lot of them have been changing their accounts on deviantart. Mannerisms and speech are the way we caught suchi so often

@foxbean I've messaged you earlier.

@foxbean I'd just say keep adding their names as you find them :( and perhaps keep the emails on a private list. If they start seeing that you track emails, they'll just start changing those too

I think there needs to be longer than 24 hours in regards to pursuing anything @foxbean . I understand things like this are important, but you and the rest of your staff / team need to also take into consideration real life factors. I only say this from recent experience. I received a character from someone Tuesday morning, but I wasn't able to respond / pay until today, because I was involved in a car accident Tuesday afternoon, so I was unable to respond because of stuff happening. If they only waited 24 hours for my case, I'd probably be on some ban-list even though I wasn't ignoring them, I literally was too busy to reply. This is just a personal opinion, not an attack or anything. Sometimes 24 hours isn't enough time when people are dumb in real life and affect you and your online time. 

Also, I am curious in what way showing a watermarked image is considered intent to steal when the OP never specifically stated it was their character. In the screencaps provided by the OP, it was shown as a question basically do you like this OC and are you okay to co-own. Do you have receipts /  screenshots to prove they claimed the character as their own before any form of payment was received, aside from the word of someone else? And do they have screenshots proving otherwise. Because right now, OP never stated it was their character and they are the only person with proof. I'm legitimately curious what prompted the initial cry for theft. I'm really confused, because it sounds like she paid for the character already, if there was a chargeback. Since a chargeback generally means money was exchanged already. 

Ariicchi These are two different situations and you seem to have pushed them together in your second paragraoh, but i can clarify. The 24 hour thing was put in place by the person they were trading with. Staff had no control over it. We cannot force anyone to give longer periods unless it was a predetermined hold, which I was not under the belief that it had been. I actually reccomended to the person to wait longer due to the fact that it seemed this person was inactive. And said myself that they may have had offline issues or something.

It was not the watermarked image alone, but a "proof" image that the supposed co owner had posted from the person to be buying WITH the watermarked image. And the person that was to sell the character being concerned with this and putting down the time limit because of a fear that the character would be stolen or was being claimed while not paid for.

The character that the conversation with myself was about was not the character that had been paid for. That was another chaarwcter. And they claimed that jayla said staff said she could keep the character, but staff had never TALKED about the purchased character and the art not being done and were unaware of the situation because the op never came to us about it at all. They didnt even come to confirm that what jayla said was true, instead taking only her word for it (she is not staff). Had staff told her anything along those lines, it was probably without context -seeing as again, we never knew that it involved the OP because they never brought the issue to us.

I'd like to add that they took my conversation with them out of context and put it in a negative context. I told them basically it happened- to say that it was already put into place that the person no longer trusted them and didnt want to go through with the sale. And that they shouldnt let it happen again because they should instead make sure they know what they are getting into with co owns and set the rules down. To be careful with these things. The reason it came off so abrupt is because i was in a rush at the time and was the only staff online to be able to deal with it at the moment.

I think it was uncalled for for them to call and support calling staff and sno-berry toxic, immature, self-centered, etc. Because they did not bring their issues to us and did not allow us to help them with them. The only interaction they had with staff on these was with myself . I went to them because the seller for the co owned character had come to me concerned. I was only relaying the message that the character they were trying to purchase had been reclaimed. I said that it was felt by the seller that they were attempting to claim the character, because that was what they said they felt. And i understand that they weren't, but my message wasnt saying they were. It was saying hat the seller felt said way, and what happened already happened, as again, we cannot force someone to go through with a trade if they don't want to.

@foxbean I guess I am still rather confused in the matter. But can you elaborate further on the theft of a character? I want to know about  this and this, and how this turned into them stealing the OC, when it was never stated that it was theirs in these screenshots. What prompted, I'm assuming Pillow?, to cry theft? When it was never stated it was already bought. Was it because they didn't reply in 24 hours? 

@foxbean

I have to agree with Princesomniac on this, if you have the screenshots of these conversations you claim had happened while Mori was inactive, then it'd be best to show them. Screenshots would help to put things to rest on an outsider's viewpoint, like myself, and it would help in your case as well, since people could assume you to be a liar without them.

Until you provide your own screenshots, I'm going to have to side with Mori that everything was taken a little too out of context due to a real life situation and the seemingly lack of common sense?? (There's a different word I want to use, but I can't remember what the word is currently.) from Pillow. Mori seems to be the only one with screenshots, after all.

Ariicchi @Milkshake-Cherry Princesomniac The thing is, we had no reports of her being called a theft. As far as it looks, the only person who did so was pillow, indirectly by saying it was stolen which seems to be an overreacton caused by miscommunication between mori and pillow. The person who was selling the character who was worried about potential theft and reacted badly and was reprimanded for doing so. And based on the fact that these were all issues with other people and not staff, I disagree with the fact that mori is blaming staff and sno-berry for something that we had no awareness of and something we had no control over due to them not bringing it to us.

The only thing I said to pillow was: https://sta.sh/01vd4hms02t7 and I have no clue what was told to the op or pillow from the other party after the fact. It seems that the other party also deleted the correspondence between them and myself.

I'm not sure what other correspondence you wanted. They already posted a portion of our conversation. Which I just literally gave my side to.

The staff didn't take it out of context. Nor accuse the op of theft as they seem to believe. As I said above, the person who was to be selling the character to be co owned was worried about potential theft. The OP was not banned from the amino or the discord which is what would happen if they were found guilty of theft-which wasnt even in question by staff. -They were kicked on discord but that is not permanent and the person who did so is on suspension for not giving notice to other moderators and trying to handle a situation they were directly involved in rather than bring it to other staff.

 This is basically what I gathered from Mori’s evidence. 

Looking at evidence image number 2 and 3 it shows foxbean telling the OP that theft was called despite OP explaining that it wasn’t the case and they were just showing the character to Pillow to make sure they also liked the character because they would be co-owning it. And apparently this Pillow posted proof (somewhere) that the OP said it was theirs or that they owned it. I wanna see that post. Because “either way it happened”, yet there is absolutely no proof what so ever, and it’s nothing but hear say on both Fox and Pillows part because there is no proof. The only proof we have is from the OP and no where do they tell Pillow it’s their character now.

And fox essentially reprimanded the OP by saying don’t let it happen again. As if it was the OPs fault.  Despite Pillow making it up entirely because the proof of the conversation is shown as evidence as well, that all OP did was ASK IF THEY LIKED IT. Unless Pillow or someone else can prove that the OP claimed ownership of this character before money exchanged hands, I don’t see any reason why Mori was treated as though they did something wrong. They didn’t do anything. 

So by saying “there were no reports of her being called a thief” is utter bull because you did call her one and even told her not to let it happen again. Rather than ask Mori directly what was going on you automatically assumed they tried to steal the character. So unfortunately Fox, Pillow, and the original owner of that character acted immaturely and prematurely. The original owner and Fox both should have messaged mori to figure out why pillow was saying what they were saying. Because everyone would have easily figured out what had happened. Pillow jumped the gun when all Mori was doing was making sure they liked it. 

Honestly I wouldn’t want to be in a group where people blindly just accept whatever crap is said about someone else without even bothering to check facts. Theft is a big deal, and before just assuming they did something, talk to them. The entire issue about the “stolen” character would never have happened otherwise. 

EDIT ; Not to mention Fox didn’t even bother to listen to Mori’s side. : “I don’t know what you were presented with, but that wasn’t how it went down.” To which Fox responsed : “Either way it happened, make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

A decent admin would ask the other party what actually had happened before just assuming whatever was said prior was cold hard truth. 

EDT 2; changed artist to original owner.