Ethnic and cultural diversity in OCs discussion

yes!! sounds great! 

Hi! I can volunteer for Germany! I've been living here for my entire life. (also kinda anything about it)

Oh, I just remembered. I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread, something about a "disconnect?" I'm very curious who else has experienced this.

I'm from America, and a lot of the cries for diversity from my age group circa six or seven years ago (I was 15-16) wanted there to be a lot more characters who were hugely into the culture from their families. America has a lot of what is called "second generation" children, kids who are born from immigrants. I'm one of them. Both of my parents were born in the Philippines, and met when in high school in Cali. My mom was very young when she moved here (about 8) and my dad was 16 but seems to have cast aside his impoverished past for the "American Dream" so he can get rich. So, I grew up not hearing a lot about my parents' home country, or even their past. I mean, I learned that apparently they eat with both a fork and spoon, but everything else I learned was from a book I checked out from the library when I was seven. (Stilted houses and rice! And pinatas! That's it.)It's hugely confusing to see all these second-generation characters with families with very close ties to their home country and its culture. I wasn't raised as a filipina kid, I was raised as a suburbian American. But I've never seen that kind of group mentioned in stories.

I'm wondering what other peoples' takes on that kind of character would be. I know I would be ecstatic to see a character that aligns with how I grew up, because I know that can happen. But I worry that other people who only know the "classic" second-generation image would cry "Appropriation!" or "Token character!" and demand the character's backstory change.
TL;DR, I'm curious whether most people would consider it a valid character or a token character if a second-generation kid just... doesn't exhibit any ties to their parent's original country or culture at all.

FreeFallingUp13 I don't have characters to show, but I can say - isn't the idea of second generation people having to be hugely into their parents' culture of origin sort of problematic itself? It's the parents' culture, not necessarily the childrens', exactly like the parents' life doesn't have to be the childrens' (ex. part of your father's identity is being a bus driver 'cause he loves being a bus driver, but the child doesn't even care about having a driver's license). Requesting otherwise kinda seems like "you look Filipina, therefore you must be Filipina in every possible way", so suddenly culture is innate and inherited instead of a social phenomenon? Culture and ethnicity are suddenly not different things? Of course you can be raised following the customs and values of certain foreign cultures or reclaim them if you're interested in it, but you can also be raised as every person in the place you were born into and don't have a particular attachment or more than an intellectual interest in your parents' origin, and in this case I don't see why would you be different from everyone else who was born in that place. It's really bothersome to think about because even where I live, second generation people often are just Italians with more knowledge of other cultures, raised as Italians and who consider themselves Italians, yet there will always be the racist claiming "Italians can't be black" therefore "they're not actually Italian", and even the law doesn't grant them citizenship authomatically unless they ask it. Being tied to more cultures sounds like a great thing and opportunity, but it's not a requirement or a genetic thing.

Feel free to add me up on the list for The Netherlands and Poland! I've been raised in the netherlands but am of polish heritage :>

I'm not sure about any stereotypes though, aside from people thinking poland is poor when it has been doing quite well in the past decade.

Right? See, when you put it that way, it makes so much more sense. I honestly have no idea who else was second generation around me growing up, because everybody seemed to be another suburbian american kid. But assumptions like the kids HAVE to share the parents' culture are based off of the idea that when somebody immigrates and has children here, they hold on fast to their old cultures and pass them on to the kids for various reasons. (They miss home, they're ousted in America for being immigrants, they stick to tradition, etc. etc.) And that seems to be the prevalent mindset whenever a second-generation person is pointed out to be second-generation; it's got this idea that the kids have their parents' old culture just because the parents couldn't let go of it. It bothers me so much being in the exact opposite situation.

Ske1th My fiance is dutch! I know at least two stereotypes; people (in America at least) think that the Dutch are shrewd businessmen (Splitting the bill when going out for dinner is called "going dutch" here, it's apparently not normal), and that Dutch people are serious; they're kind of cold and no-nonsense, not really the fun-loving type. What would you say about those stereotypes?

FreeFallingUp13 hey i'm second-generation too! i'm also a filipina, but i'm from chicago and my parents came here after college. i also feel quite a disconnect myself, especially since i was born here and the place that i've been growing up in for the majority of my life is predominantly white. i tend to feel a bit guilty for being "white-washed." i haven't really known other filipinos in my area all too well and i also feel like my family has assimilated more to american culture. my parents haven't taught me tagalog either. these aspects of second-gen culture are a lot more prevalent now considering the country's politcal climate at the moment. i would really like to see more second-gen characters too. i know this thread is all about ethnicity, but i also feel like people forget to look beyond a character's ethnicity/background when it comes to their merit. the apu situation is a great example of that.

LeoLeonis to elaborate, i think a reason why second-gens feel an obligation to be more connected to their home culture is because of the obligation we feel towards our parents seeking the american dream. i don't know if anyone else has touched on all this yet, but part of the american dream for many immigrants is to provide a better life than theirs for their children. those who are close with their parents, asian-americans especially, feel the need to own up to the hardships our parents went through to provide for us. part of that equation is to be connected to the motherland in some way or another. filipinos emphasize pride in our culture, for example, so this definitely manifests in filipino-americans. in a country that emphasizes a melting pot (or, as i would like to put it, a salad) of different cultures, holding on to your home culture is very important to a lot of people, including myself. this is all how i see it anyways, i can't speak for everyone. i do agree that it doesn't have to be an obligation though, as i feel like the guilt i harbor gets in the way at times. just because i don't know tagalog doesn't make me any less filipino.

i could honestly talk abt asian second-gen stuff for hours lmao

Since I saw lots of OCs from Naples, well... I live in Naples, Italy, and I can volunteer for Campania and Puglia regions :)

i'm first generation in the US! my family is originally from poland!

@ me if any of you guys have questions about that!

FreeFallingUp13

While I can't say much about businessmen, I can definitely say that the shrewd stereotype partially fits. In my 18 years there it is usually expected to split the bill unless some prior agreement was made- and very often (I imagine this is mostly common amongst youths, though) if someone covers for you they will expect you to pay back the amount (It became a bit of a meme as well, "Stuur mij een tikkie" @ the smallest amounts owed. AKA "Send me a payment request using Tikkie".)

All of my dutch friends often expected me to pay back when they covered for me for lunch, even though I more often than not shared my food and bought food for them without expecting any payback (and thus never requested it either, I had no reason to lol).

The other stereotype- Also honestly quite true. They have a huge culture surrounding two words- Be Normal. Anything that is out of the norm gets looked down upon, and unfortunately due to my rather intense and fanatic nature I very often heard those words. Youths doing a silly thing? "Be normal!", someone being very passionate about their work? "Be normal!". Unfortunately this causes a lot of ableism regarding autistic children, or even just kids with mild forms of adhd. They don't see them as normal so they throw them under the bus really quickly.

The cold stereotype is ESPECIALLY experienced if you're an expat. Dutch people are tolerant, but not always accepting. Because of their view on what "normal" is (Aka basically if you're not dutch you're weird and you should change), they often leave out internationals from friend groups and social events. Many expats report that they feel lonely in the netherlands, and usually they end up clumping together with other expats as well. This has been getting a little better amongst younger folks, but its still quite an issue. (Even I as a polish person that was BORN there and spoke fluent dutch was treated just a tad differently socially throughout my entire schoolyears.)

Added everyone!

cyantrashcan Thanks for this insight as well! The whole american dream concept is kinda weird to me and it surely doesn't apply to the second generation people I've personally known, and I suppose it barely does at all with my Country (most people with ambition still just go somewhere else if they can).

While about Poland: (Ske1th and lordsatin) the main stereotype I've heard is about Polish people being really religious, even to extreme levels. I immediately believe it all depends on who you ask, as any Country said to be "very religious" after all, but maybe it has a bigger effect on culture and society than elsewhere or something of the like? I also heard that there's a lot of antipathy between Polish people and Lithuanian people, especially about Vilnius - though my main source for this was a Lithuanian person I believe might be kind of (if not) a nationalist so it's probably blown out of proportion, while there's supposedly a friendlier relationship with Hungarian people; so are either of these claims true or relevant for what you know?

I guess the religious one makes sense, although younger generations are a lot more chilled out about it which is a common theme across the world. I think part of it is because of poland having been under the influence of communism. Things were miserable and people didn't have much so religion was one of the few things they could have and brought them some hopes. One of my grandmothers is very religious, while the other is really chilled out, so I think it also depends per region.

I haven't heard much about Poland and Lithuania, despite having a Lithuanian friend, so I think that's rooted into something from just a poor history perhaps. We all kinda got screwed over by the soviet union! Hungary and Poland however, is absolutely true! I'm actually living in Hungary right now! Hungarians and Polish people like eachother a lot, and often root for eachother in sport competitions whenever they have the chance to. It's ingrained in the history of the two countries, in fact. Very often Poland and Hungary would just exchange countries by allowing kings from each country to just have it for a bit. There's very little bad history between the two, and it still holds up in society today.

Despite that though, there's a distinct lack of polish folks in Hungary though (aside from tourism). I assume its because life isn't so amazing here- Costs are low but so is pay and life gets difficult.

Ske1th pretty much nailed it I think with the religion question. From my own experience visiting family from Poland, it does definitely fluctuate how heavily religious people. The parts that were poorer also have more heavily religious people from what I've seen (my uncle lives in such a part of poland). 

As for the Poland and Lithuania situation - it is a thing but most people just shrug at it at this point from what I know. Especially the younger generations. Can't say I've ever felt that tension. But it's basically old grudges. I don't remember much from those history lessons so if anyone knows more, please feel free to correct me. Some stuff is from when Poland and Lithuania (around 1550 I believe?) became a dual state (basically they united the countries + some smaller neighbouring ones) for roughly 200 years. Most of this new country went through "Polonisation", basically meaning that they adapted polish culture for the most part. 

Then there was a fight over Vilnius much later - it's from when both countries became independent after WWI. A full-on armed conflict was launched over the city and the region surrounding it since the polish considered "theirs". 

Also, if anyone has any questions about Sweden and/or Poland, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer C: I'm born and raised in sweden but my parents are from Poland and Germany (doubt I can answer much about Germany/german culture tho :') Jules would be a much better bet there ^^) 

Hello! Just introducing myself here, since ethnic diversity is one of the rarer things people think about when making OCs. I feel like for a lot of characters, people focus more on sexuality or mental disability. 'Ethnicity' might not even be a section in a lot of character sheets. On the bright side, though, I'm definitely seeing more diverse OCs around, which is very nice!

I'm Devon, from Malaysia. I'm Chinese myself, but I'd love to volunteer to answer any questions y'all have on Malay, Chinese, Indian, Thai or Japanese ethnic groups or culture; if I don't know, I can ask my friends from those ethnicities (those who know a lot). I also have a friend who's a native from here (East Malaysian) so if you have any questions on Sabahians or Sarawakian natives feel free to shoot.

On religions: I'm a Buddhist, have lots of friends who are Islam, Hindu, so I can answer questions on those too. DMs always open for these! Title your message 'ethnicity/religion question' so I know.