🌈 LGBT+ OCs discussion thread

Albinistic 

one: 

mellostopheles should not have called you nb, that is true. your gender is yours to determine.

two: 

cis isn't used to silence or discriminate... cis means not trans. and if you're feeling silenced or discriminated when someone posts things like "cis people should shut up about gender" then honestly, rethink that. it's okay to feel that initial pang of annoyance and honestly we can't control our feelings.

when minorities and oppressed groups speak about the groups that discriminate against and oppress them, they can say "i am tired of interacting with white people/cis people/straight people" it doesn't literally mean every cis/white/het/etc person in the world, but rather cis/white/het/etc people as a social category that is often discriminatory or oppressive. you should understand that. i think everyone should. 

cis isn't a slur, either way, because cisgender people have an inherent privilege in society because they identify as the gender they were assigned at birth.

three: 

uhh, ftms have female bone structure. even with "masculine clothing" (nice sexism there but ok) or HRT it won't make your bones change shape.

[...]

no, it doesnt imply that all transgender people look alike, just as saying "on average, women have wider hips than men" isn't implying that all women look identical to eachother - it's just a matter of biological sexual dimorphism. realistically, ftms will have wider hips than non trans males because the f in ftm does stand for female, they were born biologically female, and them identifying as men doesn't change their bone structure. (and again, i know many would complain if you drew trans characters looking like non trans people, i saw someone get mad over someone drawing a ftm without top surgery scars, so that is a thing.)

the thing is, in the end you're still running on stereotypes. line up ten different afab people and they won't all have the same bone structure. sure, afab people have a tendency to things like, smaller pelvises, slighter shoulders, less square features, but honestly? few afab people fit the idea of a "stereotypical female body." so, yes, you are implying that all trangedner people look alike. not all trans men will have wider hips than cis men. some cis men have more "feminine" hips than afab people. it's not a question of drawing trans characters as trans or not, it's more about a) being respectful of trans people's voices and experiences and b) drawing them as people

im going to withdraw from the discussion after a couple of points i want to make. Albinistic

The "we're oppressed so of course we lash out" excuse doesn't work; especially not for any other group. if i went off badmouthing the transgender community because a large portion of them treat intersex people badly, nobody would accept it if I tried to excuse myself with "oops i am just being oppressed."

it also goes far beyond "ahh cis people annoy me sometimes." i have seen things such as "cissie" - a hateful term combining "cisgender" and the sexist term "sissy." i have seen people constantly talk about how "cis" people are boring, how "cis" women are ugly and have ugly genitals (that's not progressive, you just hate women) and encouraging "cis" people to "explore their gender" aka choose to identify as trans.

it's about understanding nuance? and privilege? trans people don't have structural power to oppress cis people... cis people aren't oppressed by trans people. this doesn't mean "cis people can't have any struggles whatsoever" or "trans people as individuals can't be mean to cis people as individuals," it means that society is currently set up in a way that prioritizes cis people, particularly those who are non-intersex.

sure maybe cissie sounds stupid but in the end, cis people as a whole are not oppressed by people calling them cissies. trans people face actual violence simply because of their gender. cis people who get called "cissies" or "boring" just get called that and then that's it. you ever heard of the concept of 'punching up'?

the second part though? while i've never witnessed anyone do that, yeah, insulting people's genitals is ugly. either way people's genitals are no one's business but the person who they belong to, and anyone who's about to have sex with them. also, there isn't anything bad about 'exploring gender' and you are acting like "choosing to identify as trans" is a bad thing, or that people do it for the shits and giggles, which I'm gonna say straight up isn't really the case.

and as I mentioned in a previous post, it is used to silence and degrade intersex people, and ignore our struggles because most of us are just men and women and not ambigious, or we choose to be seen as men/women. "you don't know what it's like to suffer, even if you're intersex, because you're cis!"

i think i said already that i do not know the specific struggles of intersex people, and i am sorry that they are ignored. no one is saying that cis people are incapable of suffering, either. but, again, cis isn't a slur or anything of the sort. that some people ignore the unique struggles of intersex people is on another boat entirely. 

read what I said before. hardly anyone "identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth." especially women, who's assigned gender is restricting and discriminating.

it's one thing to not identify with gender stereotypes, but cis people do identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. they were born, a doctor said "this is a girl," and then when they the person wasn't a baby anymore, they were like "yeah, i'm still a girl." so they identify with the gender they were assigned at birth... stereotypes are restricting and discriminating. i know this firsthand. i am a person who is afab.

please do not use the term "afab." firstly that's an appropriated intersex term[...] secondly sex is not "assigned." sex is not gender, it is not chosen. babies aren't born sexless until a doctor waves a magic wand and "assigns" them a sex based on the alignment of the planets or something.

anyway, i've done research on afab and dfab. they're not appropriated intersex terms, there's no source on that except for terf rhetoric. also, by "assigned" i'm not saying "there isn't any physical difference between bodies with certain sexual characteristics". i am saying that when the baby was born, a doctor said "oh it's a girl, raise it as a girl" and that's what afab/dfab is.

in addition, i just think these topics are TOO touchy, and this is why i don't have lgbt OCs - i'm not LGBT and regardless of whether or not i want to make those OCs, i will be damned for doing it "wrong," or for not doing it. seems there is no right or wrong answer in many cases, and there will be people offended no matter what you do.

i don't think people generally would be offended at people trying to do respectful portrayals of lgbt people with actual research, but oh well. it seems like you are not interested in that and instead too stubborn on your ideas of what trans people are like or are not like. that's why i am not interested in future discussion. and also why i find it a bit strange that you are on this thread, which is made for lgbt character creation and discussion.

Zeetheus u right in ur last point lol

GEEZ I really do not know what happened here, but I feel awful for starting it. Sorry, everyone. What Shyads said is the simplest summation of what I was looking for, thank you. Now I'll just leave this thread be, probably for good hahahaaa

Cutting the topic here, as it's getting out of hand. Sorry for noticing it this late ;;

amers-nd

Please don't feel bad! You didn't do anything wrong!

Albinistic

I didn't say you're nb... I said IF you're nb, because you didn't mention your gender, so I had no idea what it was. Intersex obviously isn't a gender, which is why I didn't bring it up, because it's not relevant to whether you're trans or nb or not? God, way to try and start shit from nothing. My point was that the word "cis" isn't offensive on any level. Can't see how that wasn't obvious.

Frankly, a lot of what you've said has been very skin-crawlingly transphobic, and I don't have any interest in whether you want to force trans men to accept that they're "biologically women" or not. You say you're not LGBT+, so there's no reason for you to be giving advice (or shouting over other people's advice) about trans characters.

There's no point talking about this anymore, but I wanted to clarify that.

Actually, I usually don't give my OCs a sexuality at the start. It always depends on their backstory and who they may end up with. Most of the OCs on here do not have a sexuality yet. Just my main one (Marina) She's bisexual but in her story she can help out other girls who are questioning, or helping lesbians come out etc. She can be a crutch for those around her. Those elements make a character unique in my opinion. Rather than just giving it a sexuality and calling it a day.