zinnia ok awesome thanks!
I'm not sure if this technically fits here because it's not about a particular buyer or seller BUT it is about a service that we as artists use. I think it's super important information for people to know. If this doesn't belong here I'm sure an admin will tell me and I'll remove it ^ ^
So I've had a number of people ask me why I've stopped using PayPal and started using Square so I figured I'd make a bulletin explaining my reasoning.
More and more I see cases of artists getting completely screwed over by PayPal because PayPal doesn't protect digital artists. I, unfortunately, was one of those people who got screwed over. My experience when dealing with PayPal representatives wasn't a pleasant one at all and goes as follows:
Feb. 14th- I notice that my PayPal account is limited and they wanted me to provide some legal documents to prove my identity. I gladly sent in copies of my legal documents and hoped to get the limitation removed so I could transfer my funds into my bank.
Feb. 18th- I get an email from PayPal saying that my account was permanently limited due to me apparently breaking some of their Acceptable Policy. Which I didn't mind you. It all seemed really strange as I've never gotten any charge backs or any disputes filed against me before. I was really confused as to why they would limit my account. I then check my account and it was true, I had been limited permanently. I then contacted customer support through the website and they just bs-ed me and threw the same copy, paste information that they did in their email. I then pushed more to try and find out how I possibly violated their policies. I never got a reply from them again, they just completely ignored me.
I waited a couple hours and still no reply, at this point I was really getting worried so I called PayPal through their phone number. Once I was on the line with a representative she was very helpful but didn't seem to know what she was doing. She asked me where I sold my art and I told her, I even provided proof that customers were getting my products. She said she would fix it and get back to me within 7-10 days.
Mar. 5th- After two weeks with no word from PayPal I decided to call customer support again. This time, the call was much shorter and much more upsetting. I told the woman about my situation and how I had waited for their call and she said, "I'm so sorry to hear that you had to wait but if you want your account unlimited you're going to have to have to take us to court." I was shocked at that, especially when the other employee said that she was fixing things. She then asked me if I wanted to know why I got limited, to which I said yes. In response in the snarkiest voice ever she said, "Then you'll have to take us to court."
I mean you don't have to like your job but I don't think you should talk to clients like that? Basically I want nothing to do with PayPal anymore.
Now for the reason that I use Square. Square (not cash) has charge back protection for all users of their system and as long as you follow their guidelines when processing your payments then you're covered up to a certain amount per month. Why are we using a service that HURTS ARTISTS. PayPal was designed around EBay for physical sales ONLY. There are better options out there with a multitude of features that makes it easier on both the artist and their clients. Square has an integration with other e-commerce services that easily allows you to fit your needs.
It works internationally, does direct depositing to your bank account, has tons of more features and services for people who provide a service. Just please take some time and take a look into the service yourself. Scams are becoming more and more common, we need to protect ourselves. If PayPal doesn't care about digital artists then we should STOP USING THEIR SERVICE!!
Edit: Thanks to Pinkaboo-Hime bringing to light something I missed, Square is somewhat international. "Card payment acceptance with the Square app is currently available in the US, Canada, Japan, Australia, and the United Kingdom. We currently don’t support payment card processing outside of these countries or in U.S. territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands."
BONUS: Square is used more commonly than you think, if you've ever gone to a business and paid on an iPad then you've used it. They also own the personal fund app called Cash ($Cash app) is only for US residents the last I checked.. It's similar to PayPal's Venmo and is for personal transfers and you can't do business through it.
Square has so many features that make invoicing and selling easy. Way easier and more comfortable than PayPal and includes even more features that can tailor the service to fit your business. Please, please try it out in the future for your own sake, we don't need to be taking the risk of charge backs and other issues just because we use PayPal.
Square's integration with lots of other e-commerce services can benefit not only digital artists but are great for merch sales too!
Below is a test invoice to show you all how it looks from the seller's perspective. It's quite nice actually, much nicer than PayPal's. You can request tips, deposits, allow a customer to save their CC info for next time, and add an attachment of your TOS very easily.
Below this is the invoice from the buyer's perspective. When you click pay in the email you are redirected to a secure web page to actually process the payment.
There's even a referral program through Square! Just as a little incentive for artists out there I'll link mine.
If you wanna make an account as a seller, if you use that link you can get free payment processing! The free processing is up to $1000 and is good for 180 days.
Also that link can only be used by those in the US. Square doesn't yet support Cross-border free processing at this time.
If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer and if there's any other service that's an alternative to PayPal that's trustworthy feel free to reply here with it! Also if you've had any problems with PayPal please share your stories as well, let everyone be informed about the risk they're putting themselves in!
I don't know everything as I just started using this service so if anyone has information to correct me or to add about this service let me know as well!
EDIT: Payments accepted as of now are through debit/credit or via Google/Apple pay!
EDIT: If anyone using Stripe could give us more info on it that would be extremely helpful! As Square is not available in some countries!
Hmm, I'm definitely considering Square now!! Thank you for all this useful information. I've been sick of PayPal for awhile. I guess the only issue then is finding one other service for customers Square might not support... I know Stripe was mentioned here, I'll have to check out what their protections are.
The thing that saddens me most about paypal is the fact that it forces you to use your deadname.
Though, the issue I've had is that the last time I had to contact paypal, I ended up missing their contact window after they finally emailed about a thing I asked about. It was a two hour window....which I completely missed because I was asleep.
Unfortunately I'm not likely to make a switch to square until they're more international because I frequently buy from people in mainland Europe and would want to make sure they're supported.
Trundlebug Yeah I'm going to look into stripe some more myself for those customers that aren't supported by Square! I hope Square integrates more countries soon because I really am enjoying their services so far.
AsoraamFeire Yeah I'm picky about letting my real name go around so it's really nice that Square allows you to not use your name! But that sucks that you only had a two hour window, did you try contacting them about it again or just leave it be?
I know Square is working on getting availability for more countries I just hope it goes smoothly and quickly!
@Lukitsume I just left it be because no energy. That plus my sleep schedule has me paranoid that they are going to keep contacting me about contacting them at times I'm asleep. Though, gotta blame it on working a night job and sleeping during the day.
I've had issues with paypal and chargeback scams. Though my experience with them was neutral. They didnt actively do anything to really help, and when i called them for a $200 charge back that was pulled months after the person received their art, they just said they couldnt do anything since they filed it with their bank as a stolen card. I mean this was MONTHS after they purchased the art, and at that time, this person chargedback almost $10,000.00 from artist, months after they purchased and received their art. You would think paypal would look at the fact that the person didnt bother to do anything until months had gone by that it was fraud, as well as the sheer amount of people calling in outraged about the same account stealing the money they had worked hard for. -.-
I think the only GOOD that came out of me calling, was , after giving proof that the person had received their items, and that it was in fact them... paypal reversed the $20 fee... but other then that, I was still out $200.. which had come at a really REALLY bad time. It was Christmas, I had just bought tickets to see my father who was sick, AND my cats had gotten sick and had to go to the vet... it really messed me over. I live off my art, sometimes just barely scrapping by, so having even that amount taken back after works rendered, was devastating. Since everything is carefully budgeted to do what needs to be done.
I use Stripe almost exclusively due to unrelated gripes with PayPal, what information do people want to know?
Re: bank account - seller has to link a bank account. Buyer uses a credit/debit card, the exact mechanics are determined by how the seller is taking the payment, but the easiest way is invoices which are similar to PayPal invoices (but you see the buyer's payment information including last 4 digits of CC).
Re: legal name, there's a field for business name and you can even set what it shows up as on bank/cc statements.
aquapyrofan I have a question myself, is Stripe international? I know that Square isn’t international yet so it would be helpful information ^ ^