Fandom/Kins Rules Update Feedback Box

Posted 5 years, 1 month ago (Edited 5 years, 1 month ago) by admin
This will be left up for a few days so everyone can have a chance to get their thoughts in.

I'm currently reviewing a change in our fandom character ruleset in light of feedback regarding fandom characters. This was supposed to be a reply to the following thread, but I thought it'd be better to split it off into an official thread for better visibility: https://toyhou.se/~forums/14.suggestions-bugs/95652.-rules-edit-kin-characters-albums

To clarify, our current rules do not disallow upload of fan-characters as long as the canon permits derivative content, the characters are correctly credited, and all fanart is being used with permission. The reason being that up until now I haven't minded this platform being used for fandom RP. 

I'm up for changing the site rules if fandom characters are a nuisance, but just wanted to verify since there seems to be some confusion: do people want both canon characters and derivative characters banned, or just canon characters? Where these are defined as the following:

  • Canon characters:
    • EG: Re-uploading Naruto with no changes made to his design or history (usually includes GIFs and screenshots from the anime or copy pasted paragraphs from the character's wiki page)
  • Derivative characters:
    • Any characters derivative from canon content - this includes:
      • Explicit redesigns (eg. Naruto as a dog or furry)
      • Characters that're described as an OC or sona but resemble the canon character in both personality and appearance or cosplay them 24/7
      • Personalised playable MCs (eg. customised Kamui/Robin, Frisk, Gudako/Gudao)
      • Personalised pet site/game characters (eg. FlightRising dragons, Neopet/Subeta/ChickenSmoothie pets)
      • Characters belonging to a canon species (eg. pokemon OCs, LOZ OCs) 
      • Characters belonging to a canon setting (eg. BNHA/Hogwarts OCs that use the school uniform taken from canon designs)
    • This is quite a wide range, so if you have specific thoughts on what you find unacceptable or acceptable for a derivative character that'd also help with gauging the community's opinion for the new ruleset.
I won't be making this a poll; please do post if you have feedback even if you just want to add a +1 to banning one or both of the options. 


For people who would prefer not to post in thread but would still like some input, I've popped up a Google form where you can drop off your feedback: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeaQVmEpF1r8vAqEoHomYa7u_2cMcpoXWKBfhVDjpPWaNQwJg/viewform

Isoprene

EG: Re-uploading Naruto with no changes made to his design or history...

+1 to banning; if you want to RP with Naruto that's cool IMO, even on here, but you could just link to the wiki page or something like that instead of uploading a profile here on a site made for OC uploading! Seems like it already goes against the existing TOS to just upload screenshots and official art, etc. I'm guessing people mostly do it to be able to post IC if they RP on the forums + being able to form links with their FCs so I can understand the appeal of uploading them, but... explicitly not an OC.

The derivative characters section I feel has a lot lumped in together so I'll hit them one by one, but if they all Have to be lumped in together then I'd vote no ban because there's too much gray area and too many things part of that I feel shouldn't be banned.

Explicit redesigns (eg. Naruto as a dog or furry)

 Soft +1 to banning; if we're again talking about them essentially being the same exact character in name, personality, abilities, and history, it's a fun AU of a canon character and that's valid, always glad to see people having fun with stuff they like!! But I don't feel like that's quite an FC and therefore something to be uploaded here. Again I see the struggle with posting IC and RPing and stuff, but it just feels too borderline. I won't lose any sleep at night if they're not banned, but given Toyhouse's purpose it's probably something that shouldn't be allowed. If it's like a really thorough AU of a character to the point where they're practically the user's creation, no official artwork is uploaded, and the setting/character is properly credited then I wouldn't personally mind seeing them uploaded. I can still see the arguments against having them around, but... IDK it's rough because as some other people have said I don't want to stifle's people's stuff, there can still be a lot of gray area, some things might be a coincidence, etc.

So I guess to sum up if literally Everything is the same about Naruto except he's a dog that should probably be not allowed, but if it's a dog that just seems Inspired by Naruto but has plenty of differences then I don't really know that that should be a hard ban. Should definitely be against the rules to sell/trade them at least, though, since I've seen that concern come up in here!

Characters that're described as an OC or sona but...

No vote; man that one feels kind of hard, like if it's clearly to skirt around the rules of not being allowed to upload a canon character then I'd say sure to banning, but that doesn't seem like the easiest thing to judge. But just an OC who's a nerd who likes cosplaying a certain character all the time or an OC that's clearly inspired by a character but has a lot of design and other differences... I can see the arguments for it but I can also think of plenty of theoretical situations where a ban would be too harsh, so I'll just abstain, leaning more on the no ban side of things unless again it's pretty much an explicit excuse to upload an unchanged canon character.

Personalised playable MCs...

✔️ No ban; I can see arguments here as well, but so long as there's Actually personalization of the character (like the design is considerably different from the "canon" design) and they don't directly follow every plot beat, etc., I think it's a bit different than Naruto as a dog, etc. They're essentially self-inserts, and self-inserts are valid IMO!! In games they're typically explicitly made as blank as possible to be a vessel for the player's ideas, so there's a lot of potential to really make them your own thing - that's pretty much the whole point of them existing! So as long as they're actually given that investment and development into a proper FC and aren't just "literally the 'canon' design of the MU with no difference in personality and backstory than what the game provides" I think they're cool to have around!

Personalised pet site/game characters...

✔️ No ban; as long as the site TOS allows for it and you're not uploading art from the site (unless, again, the site allows for it and credit is being properly given) I don't see any issue with it. They're completely blank slates you're free to customize and make personalities, backstories, and all sorts of creative stuff around! No different from making any other FC, really; they're definitely Your character!

Characters belonging to a canon species/setting...

✔️ No ban; putting these together because I feel the same about both! You're designing the character, making their personality, coming up with their backstory, thinking of adventures for them to go on, defining their abilities, considering their relationships with created characters and canon ones alike... FCs can easily have just as much thought put into them as a standard OC, and being inspired by a canon setting or a canon species shouldn't automatically mean that character isn't original in any way whatsoever. As long as screenshots from games (if applicable) are properly credited, the species/setting is properly credited, and the creator of the species/setting doesn't have some sort of rule against derivative content, I really don't see any issue with FCs being on TH since they're perfectly capable of being fully fleshed-out characters. Not to mention seeing people be so thoroughly inspired by things they love is really awesome!!!

ufotter

+1 to banning canon character -1 to derivatives

Snellyfish
  • Explicit redesigns (eg. Naruto as a dog or furry) ;;
    Ban

  • Characters that're described as an OC or sona but resemble the canon character in both personality and appearance or cosplay them 24/7 ;;
    Debatable, but I think so long as they don't have the same name and story it's fine. Especially with a sona, someone can heavily connect with a character and base a sona off of them, and I wouldn't say that's stealing.

  • Personalised playable MCs (eg. customised Kamui/Robin, Frisk, Gudako/Gudao) ;;
    Ban

  • Personalised pet site/game characters (eg. FlightRising dragons, Neopet/Subeta/ChickenSmoothie pets) ;;
    Ban; they're good staying on their own sites

  • Characters belonging to a canon species (eg. pokemon OCs, LOZ OCs) ;;
    Stay; there's an abundance of these and I think fan-made things are a huge part of oc culture, and I see no problem with them in general

  • Characters belonging to a canon setting (eg. BNHA/Hogwarts OCs that use the school uniform taken from canon designs) ;;
    Stay; same answer as above tbh. 
geotalon

-1 to any derivative oc being banned. 

Lots of people put a lot of themselves into backstories and designs. Sure, they may be inspired by their favorite characters from shows or literature, but they are creatively different in most cases. It feels honestly harsh if you ban them..? 

comixfang
  • Canon characters:
    • -1
  • Derivative characters:
    • -1
tiredlett

Don't ban derivative characters

People put their own creative twists on these characters and make them original, often to the point where its hard to recognise the cannon they where inspired by. 


bennysprouts
  • Canon Characters?
    • -1. I have my own personal opinions on this, but I know lots of people have their own circumstances behind this. 
  • Derivative Characters?
    • -1. Derivatives are a really really grey area, and are really important to lots of people. 
sicknasty

as a person who has a lot of ocs that fall into the last two categories of 'derivative characters', i feel they really should be considered separate - there is clearly a major difference between reskinning an existing fictional character and creating a character that belongs to a fictional world/species.

LilDarkVixen

+1 to banning canon characters, explicit redesigns, characters that're described as an OC or sona and Personalized playable MCs

No to everything else, too much of a stifle on creativity and so many people first design ocs based off of fan settings, its fun and harmless

electricgoldfish

I'm neutral on banning canon characters, but strongly against banning any sort of derivative characters, even explicit redesigns. Frankly, I don't even care about banning canon characters if they're properly credited as being a canon character since this site could be useful for putting roleplay mains and whatnot. Regarding designs that are along the lines of 'X as a dog', I've done a few of these for myself and others and just as much work goes into them as purely 'original' designs, sometimes more. If it's not being sold, I don't see the issue. Most great literary works and whatnot pull from other works, and making fan characters is how a lot of people break into the roleplay and character-creating scene. In addition, making rules surrounding 'derived' characters can break into dangerous territory, since almost any character can be seen as 'derived' from another character somewhere and the creator may have no idea that the character they're 'stealing from' even exists.

provie

Canon characters: i'm indifferent, i don't know enough as to why people do this to have an opinion

derivative characters: i'm very against banning fan characters/derivative characters. even redesign characters are often a tribute or love letter to a character or series. as long as this is clear there shouldn't be a problem. fan characters are a HUGE part of the character/art community. the majority of people have them, and often they grow and develop into important characters. many people who are into characters started making them from being inspired by something, and to ban that would be detrimental to people's journeys, and essentially write off people's creative outlets as trivial

lolbit

As some people off site has said. This is a no fun zone I guess ://

If the only reason to remove fan characters is 'because it's annoying' then you should also remove characters that have no images in their galleries or characters that are just a simple base recolour. Because I find those annoying


What I'm tryna say is. This is a site for uploading pics of characters. If someone has a "UWU KINNIE DESIGN" then let them. A big company isn't going to tear down toyhouse because some kid made sonic green and made him their kin. This site has bigger problems to worry about and I think this whole debacle is stupid. The only thing it will cause is I've seen like. Upwards of 50 people on my dA alone saying they're dropping toyhouse to move to somewhere else

So nice on toyhouse. All this is doing is losing you users :/// ajsbsjns guess it's time for me to re-save ALL my characters art in fear that y'all will just delete people's characters.


(That said I have characters I paid money for that are inspired by existing characters. Does that mean they're just gonna get deleted 🙄🙄🙄)