PSA - REDFLASHIER (tw: incest)

Posted 15 days, 2 hours ago by crashkeys

i cant make a full thing rn if anyone wanted to bc i’m at work but this artist is drawing and posting characters that are brothers with the caption ‘sick love’ and tagging it as ‘toxic relationship’. i haven’t personally reached out nor do i plan to this is mostly to let my circle of people here knoow

AGAIN, TW, INCEST IN THIS LINK:

https://toyhou.se/REDFlashier/art#81810876

their refs acknowledging that they’re siblings:

https://toyhou.se/26305141.cain/gallery#79173173

https://toyhou.se/26305152.able/gallery#79173191

a chart once again confirming that they’re siblings and their relationship:

https://toyhou.se/26305152.able/gallery#81839068

EDIT: adding this as well for implied noncon gore porn so TW again:

https://toyhou.se/26305141.cain/79206911

EDIT 2: if the links don’t work, here they are uploaded. TW for everything mentioned above

https://imgur.com/a/MH4eMU8

Comments

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Feelfish

I'm really sorry to jump into a fight that's already pretty much over, but this PSA appears to me to be an intentional attack on REDFlashier.
Did you at least DM him and tell him your opinion of the art before making this PSA? If not, this is really... kind of inviting cyberbullying (and already the comments are attacking him or mocking him)
Even if you didn't intend to start a fight by posting this PSA, it's already started and it's going to cause him a ton of stress. I hope you realize that this behavior is irreversible.
Even if he has already admitted his wrongdoing and said he will never post such art again.

and I'm not saying that his art isn't incestuous, because even if he says it isn't, some people have already seen it as incestuous, and I'd say he's at fault for that too. (Including the gore porn art, because even if he warned people about the art, the Toyhouse is a public space.)

What I'm trying to say in this PSA is that cyberbullying is not something that should be done for any reason. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong, and as I mentioned above, he acknowledged and apologized for his mistakes. Mistakes are everyone's making, and he hasn't made repeated mistakes about this.
I hope the people who are fighting in the comments stop.

gush

Can you take a look at how many comments this post has compared to his bulletin, you can clearly tell which one is more hostile than the other. This one has 200+ compared the other, you're joking right?

I'm sure OP and REDFlashier are getting flack from each side, so pretty much inviting cyberbullying on BOTH sides do you not think so?

I don't know OP nor REDFlashier, but I do feel as if I dm'd the person in question that there would be apology BUT I legit wouldn't HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT until someone has mentioned it. I know for sure I wouldn't want to follow a person like this nor would anyone want to follow someone who poorly presents a taboo media in a big following. The people who are mocking / attacking the other, vice versa, are doing it on their own. Which I find disrespectful in a situation like this.

Everyone here is aware he acknowledged and apologized for his mistakes.

Feelfish

Thank you for your opinion
Of course, there are only people in his posts who are trying to protect him. Is there a need to speak out against those who are protecting him.

I've read all the comments on the entry posted by REDFlashier. No one criticized or mocked the OP. Rather, most of the comments comforted him and there were a lot that I wish I didn't do that again.
This PSA's comments are more focused on "whether the art is incestive or not" than criticizing the OP. That's a lot.. bad behavior.
As I said, art has already been seen as incestuous by many people.
I don't want them to explain 'whether the art is incest'.
However fictional it is, it involves ethical issues. This is also true of the rape, gore porn art he posted.

The Internet is an environment where bad writing about someone spreads quickly. People see it and spread it to others, and more and more people find out.
Whatever wrong he did... you don't know how much people like to collectively condemn and mock these days?
Considering these characteristics, OP would have needed to think twice before posting this PSA.

If OP had DMed REDFlashier about the art before posting this PSA once, he would of course have realized the problem and deleted it.
If he didn't delete the art after receiving the DM, well, the OP would post this PSA so that people would know more publicly. That's fair
It could have been resolved more peacefully, without everyone fighting like this.

ghirahim

I agree with you! however this only really works if it's a private matter. Tho I'd prefer the OP to have DM'd red first, the art was posted publicly and is dangerous to people who are traumatized by the subject of them. A tw/filter doesn't stop most people.

This PSA was just a warning to those who would come across it, the problems of culture and the names were completely brought up by only those protecting red, causing the bullying because frankly those arguments were really bad and only exist to excuse the existence of the subjects, not just reds actions alone.
You can't resolve incest and rape by a DM, it's clearly something red had no shame in drawing.

Basically, this PSA absolutely should exist, OP cannot control what is said in the comments neither can red on his bulletin.

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gush

Why are you adding culture into this, genuinely? Why? That doesn't give any excuse even if it's fictional! We're clearly aware that people can write taboo themes, but it was poorly represented here. However you're here talking about how it's okay for it, especially if they're gay. That's actually strange. I can see the argument about fictional characters but I will 100% always disagree with it. I believe seeing more of that kind of media in a romanticized way normalizes it.

Either way, this PSA isn't for you. It's to come into light for people who wish to not be around this kind of media, not to mention the incorrect tagging that was fixed much later. This is ALSO for OP's friends circle which got out of hand.

GTFO proshipper, how embarrassing my ass.

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gush

Wasn't upset, though I do apologize if my tone was harsh. Good luck figuring it out on the English-speaking side.

anzuzu

I'm not sure what you're trying to add to the conversation by saying all of this 😭 People can be uncomfortable with incest regardless of whether or not the depiction of it is fictional, between two people of the same sex, etc.. You even agree that 'in reality, you rather resist incest'.. Just because that you consider it something easier to digest because it's fiction and 'doesn't hurt anyone' (although I'd consider the opposite) doesn't mean that everyone agrees with that kind of sentiment. This PSA is less of a 'I think redflashier completely supports incest' and more of a cautionary word for people who were unaware of such, so there's no need to try to.. Defend incest, on your end? ^^; embarrassing.

And for the second part of your message, I think the reason it was linked was to, again, make people aware of the kind of content that redflashier makes. It doesn't include Abel, yes, and crashkeys says absolutely nothing about that in their initial message because: That's not the point. The point is that red drew nonconsensual gore porn.

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anzuzu

I understand what you're trying to say now, I'm sorry for misinterpreting some of it ^^ I do agree that the line that borders what is and isn't 'taboo' to people is a little warped, but again, that's just what other people have to formulate on their own. I don't think the creator of the PSA was implying that redflashier does happily approve of the content, but rather the fact that redflashier has created content and depictions of that taboo nature, if that makes sense. Some people are simply just not comfortable with that kind of content being presented to them, especially under incorrect trigger warnings and etc, which was the reason for this PSA :) It's to inform people of information where, afterwards, people can come to a conclusion on their own accord.

Thank you for being receptive to this conversation and hopefully some of my points made sense to you :)

ghirahim

Just because it’s a drawing doesn’t make it okay and just because it’s “apart” of someone’s culture doesn’t make it okay either. So embarrassing ^^;

ofc a pro shipper is defending this guy, incest lover fuck off

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ghirahim

You've become boring.

Kaki_Khamin

People who are trying to defend them just because "it's fictionnal" or "in [insert country] culture it's okay" no get out. This is common sense that incest is NOT okay and will never be. The fact that it was in a kind "romantized" is entirely disgusting. Some people need to learn and get out. Simple.

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8 Replies

chcr

as to the your question, yes, taboo subjects can and should be explored in media, but the issue isn't exactly on whether it was tasteful, as that's a very subjective matter: it's the fact it was depicted at all and posted by someone with a sizable following with no apt warning. many do not take well to that, and again, as izzy (the original poster) pointed out, this psa was geared for his circle of friends and mutuals: the people this psa was made for don't enjoy depictions of incest in any light and would rather stave away from it.

in short: fiction or not, people draw hard limits at certain things for their own comfort, and this psa is for them.

edit: fixed the pronouns

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heftylesbian

I want to state something real quick, a lot of people tend to say "Fiction mimics reality" and in that, people can mix up the two. Due to this point, a lot of people argue two different points: That art (whether it be drawn pieces or novels) cannot affect reality OR that they can skew people's morals. I for one believe they can skew people's morals IF the subject matter is not handled in a correct way. In this case, it was handled poorly. The two brothers were making out, practically on top of each other and it was titled "sick love", due to this we can only assume that they enjoy this sort of thing between the two characters.

The reason people's morals and ideologies can get skewed is due to 1) how nonchalantly it was made, 2) how people defend it so hardcore, 3) the popularity of the person, 4) how often this sort of subject is "lightheartedly" drawn and talked about, and 4) the fact that people think that if it is of the same gender it is fine..... That is not fine at all. Would you be saying the same thing if a father and son were to make out? Would you say the same thing if an uncle and nephew were having sex??? How is it any different if they're brothers??? It feels like to me that you have read way too much weird BL and it made your morals skewed in this way...

It is DEFINITELY OKAY to bring up taboo subjects in media, if anything IT SHOULD be explored. BUT there is a fine line between doing it right and doing it wrong. It should be brought up in a way that makes the viewer or reader think "hey this isn't okay" instead of "well it doesn't matter they're in LOVE"

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heftylesbian

I'm just letting you know, I don't know if we're agreeing with each other's points. I have a headache but let me explain... Yes, fictional characters have no human rights but you have to understand that what is portrayed in media and art can influence people in real life so there CAN BE CONSEQUENCES. It can normalize the content for a lot of people, and those who are more gullible or mentally unsound to the point of being easily influenced can think "well I guess if people write/draw it this way it's actually not a bad thing!" and use it to harm others even unwittingly. That's why when it's written or drawn WELL and showcased as BAD it's one thing as those people will know it's disgusting, but fanfics and headcanons of fictional characters who are incestuous is not okay whatsoever. I don't know if we're on the same page with that LOL

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Archangelhaslanded

I have one big message to say about my thoughts on this (I'm fine with pings btw)
Firstly my opinion is not intended to harass or bully anyone, i dont think bullying and harassment is okay, however someone making a bulletin informing their social circle of disturbing content they found a popular artist to be drawing is not bullying, and anyone who actually does bully\harass the artist in question is dumb imo, dont bully and harass your being shitty if you actually do that. Giving a harsh opinion on someone based on disturbing revelations about them is also not bullying (in can be in some cases but i do not think this is that case) I understand the sentiment of resolving things in private, do think a lot of drama should be handled in private first however if someone finds out something about a popular public figure that in a lot of cases compromises people morals i think people have a right to know who they might be supporting

Second, some have stated the same thing before, but if this were a father\daughter, brother\sister, would it be okay? No it wouldnt, so this doesn't make this any better, depicting two siblings making out is weird, point blank period, no cultural differences can excuse that because incest is morally wrong, i dont really see why thats difficult to understand and people have a right to not want to follow\support someone who presents certain VERY taboo topics in a light that could easily be interpreted as romanticization, fetishization or extremely disturbing. Its weird to get upset at someone for wanting to block or not interact with someone has very strange content that would make most people uncomfortable and cross a line in most people's eyes.

Third, the noncon implied image is also just, bad, like normalizing or drawing noncon gore porn either implied or shown is weird in my opinion, gore torture porn and noncon shouldnt be normalized, i understand some may say it was depicted as a bad thing but, regardless its weird you have to admit that. (Imo, fetishizing gore, noncon and incest is EXTREMELY harmful fictional or not that shit can fuck your mind up if start becoming okay with it, you also cant say its just fiction because fiction can effect reality and people absolutely should call out genuine harmful things and messages.)

Fourth, absolutely no one is saying dark, disturbing, heavy, serious content, or having evil\bad ocs either story or drawing wise, is bad, everyone in this thread i bet you has some of that in their stories somewhere (i have a character that accidently killed his father), the issue is there is a line and there are ways to depict things that may be taboo or extremely dark in tasteful or acceptable ways, morality and ethics are important some people have hard boundaries for certain taboo subjects especially if their not depicted well or tastefully, most people hate it when people cry about dark topics in someones story because a large majority of the time they didn't cross a moral line or depict in a weird way. People here aren't being puritans their rightfully concerned and disturbed at something that is not normal in any culture, space, and that most people have common sense not to just draw.
Just look at creators like urbanspook, AK-tasktic, called out for depicting topics in a very unsavory and gross light. One because of a genuine fetish and the other because of shock horror for engagement (not saying this is exactly what this artist did just giving examples of others who have done similar, but worse things)

And lastly, You shouldnt defend someone on the basis that their, from a different culture\country, or that their popular\have a large audience, if someone does something wrong calling them out IS important, people look up to larger creators and by excusing actions that should be criticized that helps normalize it, saying two brothers making out "isn't that bad" is not a good mind set to have. If no one had said anything about this do you think they would have just continued what they were doing? if they weren't as big of an artist as they are would it still be worth defending? Really think about that. Obviously at the end of the day its up to you to decide what you think, but dont get upset at people for being uncomfortable with someone handling this sort of topic in such a disturbing way, i dont think they should be harassed, bullied or anything like that, but i absolutely DO think people have a right to decide they dont want to support based on the evidence shown here.

Anyway that's my piece, id like to thank op for making this as I'm personally not comfortable following people who do draw specific content in this way, i dont have any ill will towards red but this kinda shit definitely isnt okay, I'm glad that they at least apologized and took the drawings down (i think they should have done it on their account on not on this bulletin though) but again people have the right to stop supporting if they dont feel comfortable doing so, otherwise i hope everyone is doing okay despite anything that might be going in their life. (sorry if my grammar and tone is wonky i struggle with them at times, i definitely dont intend for this come off as aggressive or hostile)

crashkeys

A lot of things i wanted to say have already been said ( thank you ). i never said go harass red, or that you can't support him/still like his work under any circumstances. In fact red's bulletin has waay less comments and is entirely waaaay less hostile than this one has gotten towards literally everyone involved. I do think what he posted here as an apology should be posted on his main account instead of this chaotic bulletin, and i think people should decide on their own how they proceed. Defending him blindly and drawing random conclusions about me and what i (didn't even) say gets nobody anywhere.

I made this because the art linked was pointed out to me privately and i didn't see anything at all about it on here. A lot of people, if that's not obvious by the replies in here, wouldn't want to follow or support him if they HAD known prior. I know i sure don't!

alphinaud

this is so fair, im so concerned for the people who blindly supported them still without really holding them accountable ? im not about/for attacking people but so much stuff was misconstrued from both sides (at least from what ive been reading? at least?) and i personally just Do Not Like when stuff is spreading and isnt clear + nobody is saying anything about it but at least to me this bulletin did Not come off as you saying oh go harass red or w/e, as a lot of people have bene saying it was clearly a warning to people like hey. they draw this, just letting you know! the people who are taking that and spinning it as a callout post or trying to get them cancelled or whatever are so strange to me (sorry if the shit isaid here made no sense in some spots)

im glad this was posted regardless for the fair warning and the free blocklist in the comments (/hj)

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heftylesbian

I just want to say I appreciate you posting about this. You did this so that people in your circle and following would be warned, and it expanded much more than you thought. I'm sorry for the hate you are probably getting, and I hope that it calms down soon!

amoebae

yikes :[ theyre one of my favorite designers..

shibatown

the fact this was suppose to serve as a psa for friends HELPP

cytoplasm

THANK YOU for bringing this up oh mg gosh… I felt insane when i brought it up and noone seem concerned (privately) so thank you for bringing this to people’s attention! It seems they’ve marked their entire profile for mature content now so that’s good at least. People need to realise the difference between fetishisation and awareness.

I’m seeing a lot of defences like “It was probably a mistranslation!” or “How do you know it was romantic…” Bro… have you seen the art? one of them has noncon gore porn!😭 Idk. It’s. weird.. especially since as a minor I was perfectly able to see the art (and have unfollowed now…) I don’t really think tagging is “toxic love” or whatever is a great explanation, cus that could be a LOT of things…

The issues with the biblical stuff wasn’t that it was the names, it was using a religion to create fetishised content with such themes… Idk. I’m not here to argue but i think people need to realise that it IS triggering, it IS proship and it IS gross!

alphinaud

people will do literally anything to defend incest i feel so insane 😭

chaoscorpio

Thanks OP for posting this psa!! I was extremely disturbed when I saw red upload one of those pics, didn't know the characters were siblings which made it a whole other level of disgustingness. But i do really appreciate you for putting this psa out here, it's helpful to know.

Also to the freaks supporting red +/or inc3st; thanks, this makes blocking you much easier 😀

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professorvenomous

there are so many people blindly supporting the art. there's plenty of ways to include taboo subjects into your art and stories, but drawing art of two brothers making out with plenty of proof regarding that they are family and have this toxic relationship together is ridiculous. this post was nothing more than a PSA and awareness post for those who might've missed the recent drawings and follow them. i can't believe how many of you are willing to defend this 😭 some of you are even saying "its actually culturally okay for them to kiss if they're brothers" LMFAOO ??? be normal

Deneiorr

^^^^ this and ppl also getting offended that not everyone likes that is so funny to me like dude get ur weird shit to urself please

Deneiorr

Lmao please not ppl blocking other people because not everyone thinks that it’s okay to use biblical names for these types of oc or just for ocs

I’m not okay with that and I’m not even religious, it’s just weird to me including all facts of drama, yknow

no one says that you can’t use these names and no one says that bible not have a sht like that and worse (r@pe, incest and other), but please not be surprised or be overdramatic over fact that not all people can love this 🙏

and please don’t be crying about fact that ”boooo I can’t even be on internet now everyone is so sensitive it’s not even real!” Yeah cuz more people now know that we don’t need to normalize this stuff even it’s fictional or not

chcr

the dichotomy between redflashier trying to apologize and their mutuals / followers accusing you of saying things you didn't is wild like... can we get the story straight. is red sorry and trying to make up for the unsavoury depiction of taboo topics or have they actually done nothing wrong and everything is well

on the biblical names part: yes, I pointed it out first, but it wasn't because it was particularly upsetting or problematic - it just amused me given how sort of out of pocket it seemed, no one is saying you can't name your ocs after biblical characters... I was singling something I found perplexing out to izzy who's my friend

REDFlashier

uh……and I will also say sorry about this...

I think when I first saw this psa, I subjectively took the mistakes pointed out in the comments as part of my need to clarify.

Sorry for causing you and others unnecessary trouble.

edit: I mean just about name of Bible things(I'm sorry if there is any misunderstanding.)

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lunchvibes

just because you like incest doesnt mean everyone else has to bro

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lunchvibes

defending someone else's depiction of it while also having characters with incest themes somewhere in their lore doesnt necessarily come off as you not liking it, even if it's depicted in a bad light

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lunchvibes

what the hell are you saying anymore jfc get off the computer

EDIT: side note its weird as hell for you to even be traumadumping on a PSA someone made for THEIR CIRCLE to warn against someone. log off for the day man the internet is getting to you also im not block evading i was on my alt on accident on pc when i had been on mobile earlier 🙄 i didnt even know you blocked me on main until i got back on my phone while taking a shit

1 Replies

gush

what the fuck are you actually on about? the bible names are barely the 5% of this conversation. it's genuinely baffling watching you block everyone and then post this like it's for you? you're actually traumadumping on a PSA like this?

Deneiorr

You conveyed my thoughts abt this shit tysm🙏🙏🙏

also I will not be surpised at all if same person will get angry because people blocking them too now lol (also about “conveyed“ idk if I got this word right I’m writing through translator sorry!!)

gush

yeah, my friends mentioned how they were all blocked by this guy. and reading the rest of this. is mindboggling that this is the part that had to be picked out the most. you got the right word so dont worry

Deneiorr

LMAO FOR REAL THIS IS TOO FUNNY😭😭😭

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gush

i get u posted so ppl can block you, but its kind of like super fucking weird that youd do this on a psa that's not even about you. and including the fact of what happened to you.

you can depict terrible shit in your story, but it's the way it was depicted here that was offputting. and it was tagged toxic than incest. + letting others know about the noncon art. that's it.

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schizophrenia

you'd draw brothers kissing for """mafia""" inspired furry art

Flowers in Chania

1 Replies

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gush

right! im surprised this guy wants us to understand that there are taboo subjects in stories, but doesnt give the time to actually read through what people are saying and talking about something that's barely adding to the psa

Deneiorr

I think we all are understanding clearly what a taboo themes are and how writers and artists can show them without romantization, but all these comments from them are quite funny tho😭🙏

like i have a friend who have a world based on typical horrors in summer camps and he don’t make any cute or romantic art of characters that literally want to kill each other in most scary way, but my jaw dropped because of all of this situation

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Deneiorr

For real its to weird and random to just traumadump something in comments of this post 😭

iiiski

LOL this guy also blocked me when all i did was make a joke about how common incest was in the art community 💀 (it was a "artists try not to make siblings be freaky challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]") joke

gush

yeah the person def wants people to think / be critical about taboo stories... yet doesn't want to read the rest of what people are saying.

GUNGRAVE

no one asked genuinely 😭

inkwellinc

bro started yapping in his echo chamber and thought he was a real one for going lalalaa and blocking everyone 💀

GUNGRAVE

LITERALLY?? WHY DID BRO COME IN HERE LIKE HE WAS ABOUT TO CHANGE THE TIDES OF THE EVERYTHING LIKE ..😭😭😭

Just genuinely mind boggling but imo bro should’ve kept to the bio and left th for good cause …😭😭😭

DrNevi

bro blocked me so i can't even see his yappin...

GUNGRAVE

Not even worth the time rly.. like I understand depicting sensitive subjects but the biggest issue here is the fact it was not mentioned whatsoever here and ppl were unknowingly supporting someone who made stuff like that 😭

14 Replies

REDFlashier

Hi...I just want to apologize here for the kidnapping/disturbing content.I want to explain something, but it seems that everything is going in the wrong direction...

I'm really sorry for creating these strange arts. All this is incorrect. I'm sorry for letting you see this.I won't deny any uncomfortable content in my art, which exists, and I'm sorry about it.

Because I can't see your comments now, some of them have blocked me.I want to say that just because I create these arts doesn't mean I will support these things, and I'm only here to apologize to all those who feel uncomfortable about it.

I won't make these contents in the future.

Im so sorry...

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REDFlashier

Thank you for your reply. I won't ask people to forgive me in this matter, I just try my best to answer people's questions and salvage these things.

If they block me or cancel my subscription, I will accept it.

And at the suggestion of others, I opened the account's mature users only, I hope this will be useful.

And thank you very much for unblocking me to explain this.

chcr

hi, I am glad you've apologized appropriately - I think you are being sincere in apologizing, and I do think you have owned up to it appropriately

while I personally still dislike the fact those artworks were made at all, and I don't agree with a lot of your audience defending you blindsided-ly, I think it's good that you recognized you did something wrong and went back to try mend it - I don't believe in pointless harassment, but I am a bit worried about the way your subscribers jumped the gun to defend you using arguments which were pretty sinophobic and dismissive in it's nature

I do hope that you are doing well despite everything, though, and that depictions of taboo topics will be handled more carefully in the future. please have a good day

REDFlashier

Thank you for your gentle comment. I have checked the comment section of PSA, and I will not deny the seriousness of this matter. And I don't think I will publicly release these arts in the future.

Have a nice day, too.

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DrNevi

THIS MY FRIENDD!! LIKE WHAT ITS NOT ONLY TOXIC..ITS INCEST...TOO..

cabbynetman

this. I don’t care if the artist has good art or pretty designs or whatever I’m unfollowing / blocking because this type of stuff is gross and shouldn’t be normalized even ”if it’s just fiction”, it’s stuff that affects real people and shouldn’t be represented the way they did. Gross and terrible stuff all around, why can’t people be normal bro

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DrNevi

same, i legit had so many of their designs fav'd, idc who owns the designs now but i unfaved all cus..eugh.. idc how good you are, or how sick the designs are, you've ruined them by doing this...

cabbynetman

Exactly, it’s so fucked up and yeah I had a ton faved too. :(

Not only the incest but the weird borderline gore torture nonc*n stuff???? Like ummm wtf 💀

DrNevi

exactly!! people keep glossing over the torture noncon and im like EUGGHH!!

Deneiorr

For real

Tagging art on site will not make these arts any less sus or weird

I understand creepy ocs and backstories but these are just.. uh I have no words, I myself a fan of horror stories for ocs but I can’t understand this

also all explanations like people showed in comments

> well it’s not a kiss!

> well it’s actually a kiss but it’s symbolic

nuh uh please not this again🙏

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cabbynetman

immediately unfavorite-ing designs and unfollowing them cuz wtf ☹️ I never knew they posted that shit cuz I usually close my notifs fast and have filters over sensitive content so it doesn’t show

Deneiorr

GOOD LORD I COMMENTED THIS POST HOUR AGO WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED💀🙏

100+ comments is crazy

alphinaud

What

https://toyhou.se/~comments/34570187 and https://toyhou.se/~comments/34567190 (probs out of order)

alphinaud

now i may be stupid but im not dumb. howd this go from "oh its not a kiss" to "oh, it is a kiss, but its symbolic of something"

cabbynetman

that literally just sounds like them deflecting or trying to cover it up 😭does not look good at all

alphinaud

YEAH LIKE..... at least keep ur story straight?? i dotn get it

Spamtonix

IMMA EDIT THIS OUT BC I DONT KNOW HOW TO WORD, BUT WHAT I SAID BELOW IS WHAT I WAS TRYNA SAY

alphinaud

yeah its so fucking odd to me!!!!!!!! theres only one small indicator that it IS choking the rest is like..... whagt

REDFlashier

Uh...For explanation, I didnt deny that there is a kiss in this art, One comment is about the inspiration of creating this content, while the other comment says I also painted this action in the picture, instead of denying that there was a kiss in the art....

Spamtonix

Yes sorry I was editing at the current moment I didnt know how to exactly explain but what I was trying to say the choking doesnt cancel out the incestuous implications even as an explanation, toxic yes, and you can depict toxic in general (although I still think the incest in that manner is odd to depict) but Im trying to say the people saying it wasn't incestuous looking isnt right

alphinaud

^ got to it before i got to reply

P_anda

brothers kissing in any context is weird though like ??

Even irl if family do it is not really common and usually very quickly/peck (which I would still find weird but ye)

So is just a little sus they were depicted that way to begin with with no warning 😭

swordstaff

I remember seeing this response to my comment, didn't admit it but I honestly didn't fully believe their story about it being "choking" and not kissing.. then watching them switch what they meant is baffling and makes them so much less creditable...

crashkeys

hiii i hope no one thought i was just dropping this and running for the hills. i’ve been at work and my phone keyboard is partially broken so a bit hard to navigate. I’ll be replying and adding to things soon

evswashere

so i actually wasnt aware of that oc thingy,, i was just subbed to them because they made cool adopts 😭

but like,, im not sure that they were trying to romanticize inc*st. before u read this plss keep in mind that im not on ANYONES side,, that this is my opinion and im NOT defending anyone !! /nm

so like,, from what i understood redflashier was trying to make a dark themed story.. so it was obvious that there would be dark themed art right?? in my opinion,, some people are a little sensitive and overthink some stuff,, which is obv understandable!! but like thats my opinion if u guys wanna add something feel free to and stuff idkkk 😭

Spamtonix

Personally my problem is people keep glossing over the n*ncon nsfw art, where its tagged kidnapping and a sexual item in the picture with the sexual tag which is clear n*ncon and needs to be addressed, there is no excuse for n*ncon and should not be normalized (DW NOT ATTACKING BUT PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE INCEST BUT NOT THE N*NCON)

evswashere

oh my god i didnt see that drawing 😭😭 i only got to see the ref sheets i did NOT know it was that weird

inkwellinc

Oh that’s that’s ppl defending an artist for poorly portraying a taboo subject that can be interpreted as fetishizing incest on toyhouse….

Nocturnal0peth

this situation is actually crazy though im struggling to wrap my head around it..what the fart (I UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED WITH HELP FROM FRIENDS DW) its just shocking n sickening im actually shocked bruh

souyo

hi guys

chcr

hi souyo...

souyo

helloo chcr hope you are having a lovely day today.

chcr

you too souyo ^_^

Nocturnal0peth

souyo

heftylesbian

What I don't understand is making two brothers close and intimate while kissing, and titling it sick love... and people defending it. I am a bit out of it since I am not doing well, but I'm going to try to explain my thought process as good as I can.

When you are an artist or an author, sometimes you want to depict things that some people go through. Sometimes it's abuse, neglect, and other times it may be incest or even sexual assault...... But there's a way of going about it tastefully. If you look at the drawn image and don't think it's creepy, then there might be something wrong. This is normalizing this sort of situation, where drawing it and playing it like "it's not that big of a deal" NORMALIZES these things. ESPECIALLY if you are a decently popular person with people defending you. Titling it "sick love" makes it feel like yeah it's toxic but it's okay bc they're in love <3.... Ew??? At that point it feels like you're getting off on it mentally. The character Cain's reference literally says "has an unhealthy fondness for Abel" creepy.

These sort of things cause people to become more numb to seeing incestuous stuff. I am all for writing about characters going through traumatic things, so many people go through horrible stuff everyday... But drawing it like that is a whole different ball game, and like I said there's a way of going about it tastefully. Imagine it was a father and daughter, mother and son, uncle and niece, father and son yadda yadda..... Then titling it sick love. It's the same thing, disgusting. I don't get why people are defending it, never will. I also don't understand how they could defend it ESPECIALLY after seeing that kidnapping piece, where it's torture porn including ***one of the brothers. I'm really trying to wrack my brain around this whole situation, but to be blunt it's so fucking dumb that people are defending it.

***I was corrected that it was only one brother, but still it's disgusting.

Nocturnal0peth

euguhh i agree its disturbing asf..shiver

Archangelhaslanded

^^^^ This

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Nocturnal0peth

that kind of art shouldnt be normalized though??, its still disturbing and i can understand why ALOT of people are unsettled

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Nocturnal0peth

I meant the way people are constantly trying to defend it as if it were normal, i dont word my stuff that well i apologize HELP

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3 Replies

heftylesbian

Thank you for clarifying that it was just one brother!!! Albeit still disgusting LOL

iiiski

toyhouse designers try not to be freaky when it comes to siblings/family challenge [IMPOSSIBLE] 😭😭😭

Nocturnal0peth

HELP MEE

iiiski

lol people r blocking me over a joke

get good idk 😭😭

DrNevi

UPDATE:

both images were deleted(implied+kissing ones) so you'd need to refer to the imgur!

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Archangelhaslanded

What the fuck.... I had no idea.. Thanks for making this, this is rather disturbing id wish id known sooner

Also i literally dont know how else it couldn't be interpreted when they've been confirmed to be brothers and were making out in the deleted image... I dont think anyone has an issue with dark content but this had clearly crossed a line and thats the issue people have Idk how else you'd interpret two brothers making out with a sick love tag..the noncon is also like, this shouldnt be defended, its not healthy to normalize this

Prumerin

me hapilly blacklisted :3 LMAOAINWEWENEAIWUEAIHW

alphinaud

HELP ME? FDSAGNJKSDLGJKD WHAT DID YOU DO? /GENQ

sorry i found this ocmment so fucking funny

Prumerin

i made some customs with the same color scheme as them, then he blacklisted me and blocked me claiming i copied the whole design

Prumerin

wtf someone replied to me and blocked me, i think they dont want me to answear

alphinaud

HELP? ALSO I GET THAT. i cant be bothered to actually go scour for their blacklist but god at least u get to avert ur eyes

ghirahim

dw they have me blocked too <3 theyre just another incest lover like red

Prumerin

BRUH LMAOOO (loved your style <3 following now)

alphinaud

i need to say every time i see you on psa's like this ur reply's/comments are so fucking funny, absolute real one

ghirahim

I have balls (which are not within reach to be crushed by Red)

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UndeadRabbit

she said that she just used the same color scheme, that's not copying

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UndeadRabbit

oh, yeah; nvm, it's definitely more than just the same colors, they even copied the theme!!

thank you for providing the images and taking the time to explain

i do apologize if i came off as hostile at all

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softobunny

that's not the "own" you think it is...

bridge

This comment section is beautiful its been a while since I've seen a fire like this

chcr

I have been losing my mind for the past hour checking every once a while and laughing my ass off

Gen_drawz

bridge

DrNevi

the bridge is on fire rn.. legitimately..

bridge

Uh oh

Spamtonix

😭I feel like I'm going bananas reading them

Spamtonix

Okay Im not the best at forming words, and Im not gonna speak about the incestuous part bc I dont know how to explain exactly how I feel about it (although I will say incest implication is there in MY perspective bc it's full on making out in the context due to the hand placement (at least thats what I think), but about the gore porn it's n*ncon is the problem I dont see in any situation would that be okay, It's tagged as kidnapping with a sexual item in the image so it is very much there, Im not sure if Im missing something but albeit not gore porn it's still a horrible thing to draw in the first place, and I think Red needs to address that as well. And yes I get you can draw media and not be okay with it, but n*ncon????? AM I MISSING SMTHN?????

DrNevi

psure its the object being censored very weirdly

Spamtonix

What else would that object be then? /gen (Sorry Im not sure If Im understanding)

DrNevi

like its censored like its some sort of sexual item!! (usually in nsfw art thats how they spoiler well, guys anatomy)

alphinaud

sexual items are specifically censored like that in manhua/manwha so it specifically Looks like a sexual item judging by the censoring as well

EDIT: I MEANT TO EDIT MY OWN COMMENT HOWD I REPLY TO THIS ONE?

alphinaud

NO BECAUSE THIS. the tag said kidnapping and im like !??!?! depending on how you look at it i Guess its Not gp but also the theming of the drawing is so off to me

i know .....sexual items are specifically censored like that in manhua/manwha so it specifically Looks like a sexual item judging by the censoring as well so its not hard to tell that its very clearly ncon

DrNevi

this!! like eughhh the item just gave me such the ICK cus only certain types of art censor certain objects/anatomy that way

Spamtonix

This is what im saying no matter the culture this is def not consensual in any matter especially with the kidnapping part which I think a lot of people are glossing over and I'm not sure how that's excusable

alphinaud

YEAH...... like im seeing people completely gloss that?????? and its so. interesting (/neg)

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sigilyph

this is crazy 😭 thanks for posting abt this, i had no idea bc i didnt look at the character refs when they were posted

ghirahim

I love finding out how fucked up peoples morals are just by these comments <3

alphinaud

the people who are saying that "theres no incest" or "its already been explained by red" , the implication is Still There, if you dont see it then. ok. i guess. but that doesnt take away from the fact that it can still be interpreted as incest. a lot of this is falling on interpretation atp, but also if youre going to be dense and immediately run to red's defense then please use your brain ?

and by "its up to interpretation" i mean the art piece itself, incest not being ok is not up for interpretation, because its Not ok, period, (also stop trying to bring culture into that?? im not asian so i obviously cant speak on that but its entirely fucked up to do that regardless??) the same goes with the gore porn? if you dotn see if then !?!?!? but its still. being drawn. im aware that one of the brothers is still there and that fact of the matter is that it was still drawn. if you want further explanation of what i mean feel free to ask but im not arguing with you if youre just going to be a dickhead

Gen_drawz

Im typing this as someone who barely knows Red’s art and someone who doesn’t hate this but I feel like this is a bit empty. I looked at the screenshots multiple times and it seems those brothers have a hate for one another while one still loves the other. The kiss did put me off just a bit, but at the same time we don’t know what that kiss means. Kissing each other as family doesn’t necessarily mean its incest, there are plenty of families who may kiss one another on the lips just in a family way.

As for that “gore p**n” drawing. Thats not really gore nor is it p**n. Only one of the brothers is featured with two other characters that I dont know who they are. Gore p**n would be much more volatile in my opinion, and while that drawing does show harm, why is it anyones business???? Literally I feel like they should just be able to draw what they want as long as its not harming anyone, not showing actual pedophilia, ACTUAL incest, ect. I dont feel like this was much of a “callout” as more of a complaint, and complaints are okay too like you do not have to agree with what Red is drawing. You do not HAVE to like it, but they should be able to draw what they want. Again, the “gore p**n” is off putting sure but like, if its labeled as something bad and censored on the cover page as you can on th, you dont have to look at it. The kissing image did personally put me off a bit but it could also just have another meaning. I dont feel like people should judge them for this, even if I barely know them like I doooon’t think they needed to be “bashed” for this.

ghirahim

it's not just kissing, they're MAKING OUT with text stating "SICK LOVE" which is a little on the nose as well as it being marked as "toxic relationship"

Gen_drawz

I mean are they making out 😭, the image literally shows them close, obviously implied by them kissing even with no lips drawn. But there isn’t anything explicitly showing they’re making out.

I think the “SICK LOVE” and “toxic relationship” can have multiple interpretations. It can have yalls interpretation of incest but also it can mean that the two generally just have a toxic relationship like how the descriptions of each other said. One hates the other while the other hates but also loves the one. I feel like thats what they may have meant, but at the same time i DONT KNOW their ocs story. If it is incest like yeah thats weird to me but also arent artist and media allowed to depict weird things. Sure if theres straight up sibling p**n on the page then thats like woah maybe keep that in your files yo, but I really don’t think that kiss is the two making out. And I’m generally unsure about the descriptions, that’s for Red to either tell us or keep to themself about.

ghirahim

bro stfu just admit you like incest

"oh i have pedophilia mentioned in my story let me just draw a graphic image depicting that and hide it behind a lousy tw"

Gen_drawz

Okay yo thats a bit crazy. Im just trying to have a normal talk about why I think that yes its weird and that I think incest IS a problem, why are artists not allowed to depict problematic things.

Also please let me know where the pedophilia is, genuinely. All I understood from those images is that the brothers were kissing (imo its weird) and that theres a kidnapping with weird stuff going on (also weird but again who am i to dictate what they draw. Could have been something kept in their files).

ghirahim

I was making a comparison because incest is equally as bad? are you dense? you also said in your own comment "Literally I feel like they should just be able to draw what they want as long as its not harming anyone, not showing actual pedophilia, ACTUAL incest, ect." basically you're letting people draw child porn, incest and it's okay because it's hidden from the public?

5 Replies

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Gen_drawz

I understand your argument, yes it would be very different if it was a father and daughter. I’m only stuck on the thought because I have seen siblings kiss on the lips before in a family way, it’s just something I’ve seen Irl. in this drawing its very weird, and the more I do look at it the weirder it becomes, but I feel like I really can’t say much other than that I find it weird because I don’t know Red’s personal reason for that you know? I want to say again I’m not trying to defend Red like Im not even really knowledgeable about their designs and stuff, I’m just trying to give my perspective as someone who looked through everything.

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Gen_drawz

I understand this yo. I don’t follow them, as I said like I’m coming from a POV of someone who isn’t very familiar with their work, so I was just giving my opinion.

Randomratlad

It's a story?? Like you don't have to think something's okay to write about it

Do you think people who write horror stories are murderers????

Also the biblical names shit is just so fucking stupid?? Like it's just a name?? gatekeeping names is just crazy 💀

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sus

This PSA is literally just to inform people if they want to support someone who openly posts incest. Get over yourself. “Gatekeeping” , its literally just a PSA, Izzy claimed nothing.

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chcr

before anyone jumps to red's defense: it's really gross to imply that being chinese or east asian suddenly makes you exempt to the critiques others make of your depiction of characters and their relationships. the words "brother" and "family" / similar lingo is not the complicated english you pretend it to be to make excuses for them. I am chinese myself, I do not live in an english speaking country, and it's common fucking sense to know siblings depicted as to be kissing each other has certain undertones that are romantic or sexual in nature.

no matter what people have made you believe, incest is not fucking okay nor different for us, and to imply otherwise is simply sinophobic. east asian artists do not need your coddling.

ghirahim

^^^^^^^^^^ just because it's cultural (if factually true siblings totally DO make out with their sibling) doesn't make it okay

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chcr

it seems a bit desingenious to claim there's nothing substantial when it's stated in their relationship charts that not only they are "family" but that they also share the same parents... redflashier's native language is not english, but they do know enough to get by with selling their designs, so I don't think that's an excuse. whether or not redflashier "supports" incest or not, they have now drawn a very gratuitous depiction of said ocs's incestuous relationship, which is still pretty uncomfortable.

tasteful depictions of taboo subjects can be done, of course, and no one has a final say on things like these, but this is... pretty damning. specifically when they have quite a following, it's irresponsible to upload this sort of stuff when they have not cultivated an audience regarding this sort of art.

TOGEDMARU

I'm not on either side of this whole thing but I don't think they can control the audience they have or who follows them? It was tagged with a warning which bin any case if you upload something insensitive (I think that's the word) you should always give a warning of it for those who follow u and don't wanna see it and they did do that (not saying they're in the right or wrong here, I'm too dumb to try and put an opinion on that lmao) but they did take that step so people who find it uncomfortable wouldnt see it because ubshould always check the warning of smthn

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chcr

I am not going to argue with you 😭 if you are going to be obtuse, I don't gain much from dragging this any further

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angelbark

except im personally confused as in. why are they family and kissing in one picture lol. like did they just not understand what “brother” means or

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ghirahim

theyre literally MAKING out in one pic?

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9 Replies

ghirahim

prove to me people in china MAKE OUT with their siblings?

3 Replies

0CE4N-M4N

Did you not know that family members sometimes kiss one another and it's not incestuous/romantic? Ive seen FRIENDS kiss each other (hell I've kissed my own friends, and I have zero interest in dating them or anything of the sort). It's a sign of affection, and not just a romantic one. Holy crap the absolute REACHING. You come off as a westerner that thinks kissing is only for people who are being romantic.

Also if you could have like. Talked to RED to get context for things?? They just explained everything to clear up the misconceptions in a post and informed they don't support incest (whether in fiction or reality).

Also, people are allowed to depict fucked up topics and toxic relationships between individuals without romanticizing or glorifying them, yknow. What are we, 5 years old?

I'd get being mad at them if they were in support of or glorifying this kinda thing (cus I agree that type of thing aint okay) but?? They aren't??? In this type of case if you aren't comfortable with it just block and move on it is that easy.

These are SERIOUS allegations, you shouldn't just be flinging these around cus you misunderstood someone's art and didn't even bother getting context. "Assuming makes an ass out of me you and me", as they say.

angelbark

why are you so mad i just asked a question 💀 i am not talking to anyone about the situation (only ever made that one comment), and the difference is is that theyre full on making out in one of the images and then red literally said its not incest while having them listed as brothers (not even saying it is, but not okay, as i too have characters like that but dont call it what its not lol) but uhhh. have a good day 🤞

alphinaud

it says implied noncon gore porn, its not stated outright in the image but the implication is there, is what they mean im p sure

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alphinaud

well the way stuff is implied for other people may not come off the same way to others so :shrug:

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alphinaud

my brother in christ im just trying to clear up what mightve been a misinterpretation idc about seeing this stuff lmfao, if its tagged, its tagged, if people dont want to see it theyre free to say w/e about it regardless :b

4 Replies

Deneiorr

There is no way they drawing incest and named characters after biblical brothers this is so fucked up omg💀💀

I saw their designs being on “hot” toyhouse page and I’m now glad that I didn’t checked their art in profile

chcr

the character links seem to no longer work but holy fuck... 😭😭😭 the characters being named after the biblical brothers too???

crashkeys

really? they work for me but i can upload the images after i’m off work today if that’s the case… yeaaah…

chcr

dw I saw the images in the art tab link! still really flabbergasted though like. damn