Fandom/Kins Rules Update Feedback Box

+1 to restricting canon characters with no changes at all. After hearing some other's thoughts, I think I'm decidedly neutral on this. As long as they have permission for any images etc they're using, I don't really care if people keep a folder of the canon characters they RP or have links to or something like that.

-1 to everything else. It's strange to me that so many people seem to be against "canon character as a dog" but okay with characters of a canon species. What makes a purple Pikachu more "original" than a dog whose design is based on Ash Ketchum? There's so many different ways to adapt the design of a canon character onto a different species, and many of these interpretations can be quite creative. In some cases you may not even be able to tell who the character was based off of unless the artist told you. I'd rather neither be banned of course, but if we're basing this on the argument of canon character based designs impeding on the copyright holder's IP, then it would be hypocritical to say that they should be banned while alternate colors/designs of canon species should be allowed. However, the first post of this thread seems to suggest that this is being brought up because people are tired of seeing fandom OCs. If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but no. Everyone has their own way of enjoying characters and I can't agree with the banning of any sort of character simply because some people don't enjoy certain types of characters. If it's really that big of an issue, make a fan character checkbox/ filter so people don't have to see them if they don't want to. But outright banning them for that reason is absolutely not the way to go. 

while i agree that just uploading canon characters shouldn't be allowed, any derivatives should be left alone. it's too much of a grey area, and i really don't see the harm in making a 'canon character but a dog', especially since they seem to be so popular. if people want to make a sona based off of a character, then that isn't really harming anyone. i do think, maybe, they should be separated from 'other' characters (e.g., a 'character based' tag or filter of sorts?) so, in terms of like trading or selling, people can opt out of seeing these types of characters? though i don't think people should be allowed to sell characters that are like, just naruto but in anthro form - but that's a more complicated issue i don't really know how to form thoughts on. fan characters also should definitely be left out of this discussion entirely imo.

edit: also looking at the original thread it seems the whole complaint came from just like, uploading a picture of naruto and doing nothing else with it, not about character based characters? which i agree shouldn't be allowed. i just don't think character based characters should be part of that ban because someone drawing and creating, like, a sona based on naruto is much different than someone just uploading an image of naruto.

I second the thoughts of theladyanatola and lunamoth19, derivative ocs have so much grey area it'll be hard to police what is and isn't "original" enough without being subjective which isn't entirely fair.

I'm fine with banning "straight up canon characters" but beyond that everything gets grey and subjective very quickly imo. In the mean time of figuring this out though, a "fandom oc" label or check box does sound like a helpful addition. Some kind of flagging to tell you an oc is a fan character or fandom inspired, perhaps? I don't think that's something anyone could really complain about having as an option, and it'd increase transparency for things like oc trading.

+1 for banning Canon Characters
-1 for banning Derivitave Characters

Toyhou.se was designed and made for the storage of characters and uploading characters your account implies ownership of the design/character you've uploaded. Since it is unlikely that the owner of "Naruto" is using this site, no one should be uploading Naruto to the site. As you acknowledged "Derivative Characters" is a VERY LARGE umbrella term encompassing a wide range of characters. Given how wide that is I am against implementing a ban against them.

+1 For banning Canon characters. Easy enough to explain since they don't belong to you.

+1 For banning Canon character as some other species. Dog is given as the most common example so I'll run with that. The original character doesn't belong to you, making it into another animal doesn't change that. Imagine if someone were to make a dog version of another member's human character and then claim it as their original design. It just doesn't work in any context.

-1 For characters based off of a canon species or setting, as long as it is clear that it is original and is only using ideas from the original work to make something of their own.

i usually dont like commenting on things like this but i think this ones kinda important so ill throw in my two cents :')

+1 for the banning of canon characters with no changes because theyre not yours!! i think this is super simple, i really just cant see any argument for this. kin albums and such can be stored in so many other ways if you really need them, they dont need to be on a site for posting keyword your characters. if you really want to store them here theres still other ways, including on your profile or in bulletins! they dont need to be clogging up the characters.

-1 for the banning of any/all derivative characters because as much as i dont want to be seeing a literal carbon copy of a canon character as another species/etc. either, the line is super fuzzy and very hard to draw. touching on one of the subjects, theres several fan characters like those from the pokémon, su, and MANY others that are intentionally supposed to look exactly/almost exactly like the original and i dont think that banning them is fair (although, going on a tangent here, people still obviously still shouldnt be uploading images they do not have permission to use in these cases (i.e. nobody should be using fanart of the canon pikachu on their pikachu fan characters page, etc.)). i definitely think they should stay, and like i said at the beginning of this lil section here, as much as i dislike canon characters with one change that otherwise stay the same, its hard to allow one and not allow the others. as long as people arent breaking any other rules i think derivative characters as a whole shouldnt be banned. the original source should ALWAYS be credited, however, and some clear rules on creator and designer credits would be very nice!! <33

something else worth noting, though, is that the rules of sites such as flight rising and chicken smoothie should still be followed when theyre stated (unlike bigger companies who dont have clear sets of rules regarding fan characters and such). chicken smoothie for example allows derivative characters of their designs, HOWEVER the site must be credited and they DO NOT allow the sale of derivative characters. if a site doesnt allow derivative characters, derivative characters of designs from that site/etc. shouldnt be allowed here of course.

sorry if anything doesnt make sense oops!! but basically my opinion is canon characters = no, any/all derivative characters = yes since lines within it regarding specifics are fuzzy, as long as all toyhou.se and source implemented rules are followed!!

I'd like to bring up something else, which I had edited to my original comment in shorter forms.

There's a huge loophole that could be exploited if all fancharacters were banned.

That being that there are fandoms for things such as watership down or warriors. The canon characters are real life species. The characters are all based off what is possible for their species IRL in colors and markings. Fan characters, following those rules, would essentially be just naturally colored animals. Making it super easy to just go and put them into a nonfandom character folder.

So, banning all fancharacters would end up getting some flack just because there'd be a loophole to allow fanrabbits or fancats without stating that they are fancharacters.

• Canon characters:
  • EG: Re-uploading Naruto with no changes made to his design or history:
    +1 for banning canon self explanatory
• Derivative characters:
  • Any characters derivative from canon content - this includes:
    • Explicit redesigns (eg. Naruto as a dog or furry)
      +1 for banning if they're claiming ownership of the design, which, you know, would then be attributed to the canon wiki page or something, so yeah.
      
    • Characters that're described as an OC or sona but resemble the canon character in both personality and appearance or cosplay them 24/7
      ?1 questionable
      
    • Personalized playable MCs (eg. customised Kamui/Robin, Frisk, Gudako/Gudao)
      -1 do not ban you'd have to ban the vast majority of the fire emblem community (and any communities for games that have a custom player character really) as there are countless 'robins' and 'kamuis' both similar to and nothing like canon, and thats part of the point of the game; to play these characters how you want and basically 'make them your own' while acknowledging their origins
      
    • Personalized pet site/game characters (eg. FlightRising dragons, Neopet/Subeta/ChickenSmoothie pets)
      -1 do not ban i only do flight rising but still; another case of 'make them your own' while acknowledging where they came from
      
    • Characters belonging to a canon species (eg. pokemon OCs, LOZ OCs)
      -1 do not ban this wipes out nearly all fan-characters... just... dont do this.
      
    • Characters belonging to a canon setting (eg. BNHA/Hogwarts OCs that use the school uniform taken from canon designs)
      -1 do not ban this wipes out ALL fan-characters, why is this even on this list? even if they have canon interaction, so long as theyre not CLAIMING OWNERSHIP of said canon characters, then what is the actual issue?
      

I think the first one should be handled but not derivative ones... Please let us have our ocs that are inspired by others

+1 on warning canon/kin chars. I'm against outright banning/removing without warning. It may be obvious to one, but not EVERYONE can know about all of this stuff. I have never even heard of these terms before today. Obviously, if they don't change it, then banning is ok. I can see where that would be troublesome too, you'd have to keep track of who was warned and when and probably deal with rebuttals/excuses, but I still think a warning would be appreciated by most. I know I would appreciate it

-1 on banning anything other than straight-up recolors and canon chars being uploaded as-is. I love fan chars and have a few myself. It's fun to imagine a character in a fictional world you love, weather that's a game or tv show or movie or whatever. I am not against "x-as-a-creature" either, because they are generally not carbon-copies; they have their own development and character. Now, I'm not saying this is everyone. There are some that are just re-colors or species-shifts. And I see why that's an issue, but I think they should at least be warned that that isn't allowed here, and give them the option to change them. I am also wondering how MLP isn't an example?? I get they are just sparkle-ponies, but due to the show, they have their own lore and everything. And no one seems to question fan-MLPs. Even with shared mane/tail styles of the main cast. So why are they ok and not Pokemon or others? Just a thought...

Honestly, even with this rule, it won't stop everything. Thieves will still steal and the dishonest will still be dishonest. It may curb the tempted, but it will also cause stress to a lot of people over wondering if their char will be "safe" or not. I agree with lunamoth, Amaaroc, Motherbeats and husbrandos

EDIT: I just saw Whitefire's post and I 200% agree!! ^^

Uh I don't know why I feel the need to give feedback on this but hey here ya go, and yes of course please ban exact duplicates of canon characters 

I don't know how to make comments this feels weird I'm just a commoner I don't belong in places like these that make big decisions :0

Explicit redesigns (eg. Naruto as a dog or furry)

Yep, it still is the character and shouldn't be called your character, it belongs to the original creators.

Characters that're described as an OC or sona but resemble the canon character in both personality and appearance or cosplay them 24/7

Yep yep, it's still looking exactly like a character. Still belongs to the creator of whoever they are copying. If they cosplay them occasionally it's okay that's normal I have characters that do that but like 24/7 is extensive and pointless.

Personalised playable MCs (eg. customised Kamui/Robin, Frisk, Gudako/Gudao)

This is VERY debatable. Mainly yes though

Personalised pet site/game characters (eg. FlightRising dragons, Neopet/Subeta/ChickenSmoothie pets)

Yes but no? I feel like the types of dragons in FR are unique to them but enough changes could warrant a character that maybe looks like a dragon you have in FR. I don't play the other three given as examples but if I remember some have normal colorations so I feel like it's just down to species theft. I play a game called Ovipets and people constantly base OCs off of them but the thing is, Ovipets uses real species and usually has realistic markings so in the end it's like making a character based off of a (insert species here) and is that a crime?

On this one I'm saying taking the colors is fine but species is not, so probably yes to the ban ;/

Characters belonging to a canon species (eg. pokemon OCs, LOZ OCs) 

YES a "recolor" doesn't help you, an eevee is an eevee changing eye colors or a marking here or there isn't helping you.

Characters belonging to a canon setting (eg. BNHA/Hogwarts OCs that use the school uniform taken from canon designs)

No, a setting should be allowed. It can be a creative character with unique looks and unique story and powers. The outfit should be changed though ^^ make them unique clothes though and I think it would be fine

Like Warriors, Wings of Fires, those rabbit things. All are species constantly used and I even have characters that have WC roots. I'd have to technically delete my main sona just because she was a WC and therefore has story in a WC world ;0 For WoF yes you should change the dragons since those could be canon species of dragons but WC and the rabbits are actual species that exist and therefore can't be copy righted like "WC OWNS CATS" or smth like that