PSA: Sheller/Jodora (Mass Chargebacks) (Resolved?)

That's great news, although people don't have to continue buisness with you if they do not feel comfortable anymore. They have the right to fully refuse. So even if you are waiting to get designs back, there is a trust that was broken.

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https://toyhou.se/~bulletins/1764773.th-user-kiiba-00-concern

I see that now ty, probably best to move on from the revoked designs.

Moochasu

The audacity..

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kiba_00

putting this here -- looks like they've made 'artist concern' bulletins about me and atra (edit: they were deleted )

https://toyhou.se/~bulletins/1764759.th-user-atra-concern

image.png?ex=65fb5ffc&is=65e8eafc&hm=b13

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shalebridge

hell. this just keeps getting worse for them.

regretting giving them some advice to lock twt, shut up, and take care of this without throwing a fit in callouts that they have no room to make

they have me blocked here

they were rude as hell to me after giving me a refund then blocked me too, what a childish person. they really need to stop being like this to people who are rightfully pissed off

shalebridge

yeah they’re really not doing themselves any favors at this point.

i cant believe this person is in their mid 20s

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aux

Update March 05, 2024 (2 Cases: 1 Open, 1 Closed)
just wanted to give an update that my $25 case opened on Feb 26th is still open but the Paypal representative I spoke to this morning said that because the claim was internal (as in made via Paypal itself rather than externally through a bank) I should expect an update or decision within the next week or so. Paypal only gave me until March 7th to respond, so I did so, but I will also be waiting on any updates from Sheller this Friday. (just mentioning this since I saw some comments where people feared a paypal dispute could drag on for months(?), and wanted to share what I've been told)

the $70 e-check situation seems to be too complicated for paypal's UI to clearly describe, unfortunately. No case had appeared for the pending eCheck in my Resolution Center since the funds never actually hit my account, but it was still a transaction covered by the 180 day blanket chargebacks. As of yesterday the $70 seems to have been retroactively given a case by Paypal so that they could mark the transaction as a "Closed" dispute. The check failed to clear and has been marked as "Canceled" by Paypal's system, and confusingly the website says the case was closed in the buyer's favor while their phone system claims it was closed in my (the seller's) favor. The human rep I spoke to this morning said that because the buyer cancelled the claim, "the sender is liable for the dispute in their system" and this corroborates with the email I received. So I think this $70 case is a situation where paypal is making it difficult to 100% verify clearly, but I want to point out that it does look like the $70 dispute was closed by Sheller. (screenshots attached)
(The check being cancelled is a good thing for my situation as I had already messaged Sheller that I wouldn't send the design until payment was actually received + I don't accept echecks--I am not owed this $70, just to be 100% clear)

I'm sorry I'm not able to say anything more definitive than this right now since this specific case was sort of a chargeback on schrodinger's echeck to begin with. but it's potentially one of the 11 reversals[1] if that's being done in chronological order since the echeck was initiated right before this whole debacle began.

Archangelhaslanded

Im also an outsider looking in, as ive followed this situation since i got several psa bulletins from artists i follow, and i have to say i find it incredibly odd how they only truly started responding after their friends showed their dms with sheller. I understand this can be stressful on both sides but the way this has been handled by sheller is..concerning, i dont blame anyone who still finds the situation suspicious beacuse its certainly hard to believe. The fact that sheller blamed some of their friends for this is making it even harder to really trust what they say. (i genuinely do hope they get out of the situation with their abusive mother, i do believe them in that, but the current situation they claim to be their mother's doing is difficult to believe..) And i cant imagine how this feels for the affected parties. i sincerely hope everyone gets their money back in a hopefully, quick amount of time.

edit: (3\4\04 at 6:32 pm)- i wanted to let all affected parties know they made two more responses
https://toyhou.se/~bulletins/1760996.psa-response-2-q-n-a-format-march-4-8th
https://toyhou.se/~bulletins/1761061.psa-response-3-final-words-for-now-march-4-8th

paeon

Genuine question, but while reading the list of amounts on the calculator bulletin I'm noticing a lot of cases involving echecks that bounce back. Isn't paying for things with cheques that you know will fail counted as fraud?

aux

hello! i actually did a bit of reading about this online since it was my first time seeing an eCheck so i'll offer what I found for context if it helps just for general eCheck awareness:

- according to other Paypal users in forums, under certain circumstances Paypal will send eChecks without making it clear to the buyer that the payment will be sent as an eCheck [1] [2] [3] or why it's happening
- to my knowledge, none of the echecks were sent after the whole bank fiasco began, and the paypal forums corroborate that eChecks can happen accidentally. so I don't think there's necessarily proof that the checks were intended to fail (or even intentionally sent as eChecks).

so i'm not totally sure it would be advisable for people pursue the Fraud accusation with paypal for their chargeback disputes. that angle might have a higher burden of proof than just proving that goods were delivered or that services were rendered, or in other cases that the transaction was not unauthorized, and that the chargeback itself is illegitimate. this is my first rodeo with paypal's dispute center but given paypal's track record it seems like claims with hard evidence will just be easier to present in a case. o(-(

(but I do think it's fair for people to draw their own conclusions, and I may have missed something important somewhere!)

LivelyDreamer13

I've been an outsider looking in this entire situation since I saw the thread on Twitter a few days ago. I just saw the response from sheller and... yeah... I have a feeling the response only came out today as a form of damage control when their friends exposed parts of their DMs revealing sheller's erratic behaviors. I feel like we wouldn't have heard anything if this didn't happen today

I really hope everyone is able to get their money back! Like many others, I have my extreme doubts about the validity of this, especially after sheller's twitter response (claims to have an audio recording for proof, doesn't share it; strange/confusing explanation as to why chargebacks can't be canceled asap; no apology for anything). If there is genuinely abuse going on for them, I hope they can get out of that situation, but at the same time, I really hope they don't attempt to run away or bail last second on Friday for people that need the money

Spamtonix

Another thing is, they say if their Paypal is restricted they will not have any way to do refunds, but why is Paypal the only option? It isn't. Then proceeds to say via bulletin that they wanted their account unbanned on Vgen to contact artists yet we have a whole calculator to contact different artists, and they can look at their charges to see them if there was someone else we don't know about that they paid to find the artists social media. The Vgen bulletin seems to give a hint that they even further just want to run away or come back in some different way in this community and they're digging themselves an even deeper hole.

LivelyDreamer13

yeah!! There's a bunch of others options out there. PayPal isn't the only cash transfer app out there. I really, really hope people are able to get their money back. but I have my own doubts people will see any of it again. sheller themselves revealed their other debts (the 6k) they vented about on their locked twitter account was also art-related. I just hope they get the help they need, since nobody at their age should be spending over 10k in art with money they don't have!

Spamtonix

Yeah!!!!! The most important thing is people get their money back and hopefully Sheller gets help so no artist has to suffer through this again, and everyone can secure their livelihoods more safely! I just hope that truly comes into fruition soon!

KarinKitsune

Yeah I've been lurking this whole time but this time I had to comment... I feel worried that their priority is their own paypal account instead of the 30+ artist that got scammed because of their "mother" chargeback... :T

Like I hope things get better in terms of their personal life problems... But the more I see the more doubt I have ngl...

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mai

hey there, i appreciate you reaching out and giving a response, but until i see evidence of money being returned to the accounts of people affected by the chargebacks, you have to understand i'm struggling to believe you, im really sorry.

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crumpledletters

thanks to my friend recently telling me about this the other day i just came to realize that sheller had also offered on two designs i owned about a few weeks ago but quickly backed out when i replied to them regarding said offers,, i honestly had no idea until my friend mention it, i dodged a huge bullet there

this is such a horrid and scummy situation,, i really hope all the artists involved get their justice and money back ;; sheller can’t run away from this.

im in contact with one of their friends.. they have now lost contact with sheller so i think they just dipped and ran away from all of it.

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Cold

Oh man its just getting worse huh Was really hoping they'd try to own up and stop this bullshit i feel so bad for all the artists

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Noraitai

I just realized they offered to buy/ voucher for one of my characters a couple weeks ago and I feel like I dodged a cannon ball not wanting to part from the design 🥴 hopefully everyone will get back the money or characters, but man what an awful situation

Just curious did they ask to buy the design before or after all of this info came out?

Just cus you said a couple of days 😰 If it was during all this, where it was public that they owed money that would be freaking WILD

Noraitai

Oh no it was waaay before this! I didn't reply to it because i sick these past months & when I got to it I didn't want to think about trading, but luck was on my side I guess

Edit: actually gonna edit the couple days cause it's couple weeks 🤐 work & getting sick ain't the best for my time perception it seems ksndjss

Update from SlimeyFlowers

No worries at all! I went through pretty much the same bout of sickness with no motivation so it's understandable.

I don't know where I am half the time anymoreee.

I'm glad you and a few others I've seen on this thread dodged the money portion of this drama. I think more and more people are gonna come out about this for a while unfortunately...

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Yamatae

I believe I found another twitter account ran by them https://twitter.com/jodoras

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Yamatae

that is alarming, hopefully they aren't using it.

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MamaLantiis

This has made it to Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ArtistsAware/posts/pfbid037M2JkrvDHjF9CkGFStYMPPf4xEyrZEjZ523jACgYZ6kjq2z7nw3L5ARR3mGuiqikl

eishun29

Hi.. I'm also one of the artist getting chargeback recently by Jodora. Can I post my PSA here? :')

(finished custom commission, getting chargeback and blocked)

Caliborn

not replying on behalf of mai, but you should check this and comment where asked so owed amounts can keep being tallied up
https://toyhou.se/~bulletins/1746913.shellerjodora-calculator

mai

Of course ! Please do :)

cheeriko

It seems that Gill is attempting to hide from or ignore what's going on </3 I have doubts that any charges will be reversed by them

ugh this is annoying to say the leaast, im only down 25 bucks but there are some down 500 or more , atp someone could sue

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Merric

I opened a ticket with Toyhouse and had my character transferred back to me very quickly! The payment never actually went through (their bank denied it) so I am in a very lucky situation where no harm was done. I should've known better than to send the character while the payment was still pending. But I wish the best for the people hit hard by this...

How to block someone on PayPal

Got my character back too! Admins were very responsive

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SUIT

I just received this email about the pending echeck thats pending from them in my account;

[img removed via request]

Apparently their bank itself is now declining the payments?

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SUIT

Thank you so much for letting me know it won't cycle forever!! Thats what I was worried about!

and I don't think their pp name being included is a problem? Any one who's done transactions with them / viewed this scenario/ has seen screenshots of the emails or screenshots of the paypal charge backs people have gotten from them would know that is their paypal name. It's not included for harm or anything; just for association confirmation

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SUIT

removed the screenshot

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Megan

is there a way to block emails on paypal?

teethviscera

SAWVIDAE

I just checked and unfortunately it doesn't look like you can block users you haven't made any transactions with before; I just went to try and block her to be safe, but it relies on your contacts page, and users only get added to contacts if you've sent or received money from them.

EDIT: I found a workaround, but it requires the mobile app. Send her a request for a negligible amount like 1 cent and then immediately cancel it (through either the site or app), then log into the app and look at the cancelled transaction. There'll be a "Block Mya" button at the bottom of the screen that you can tap, and it'll block her so it won't be possible to make any transactions with her in the future.

randomslimer

I know it's not much but if things don't get resolved I wouldn't mind commissioning some of the people affected and paying extra.. I hope everyone gets their money back

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Glad to hear that admin is on top of it! My pal who was chargebacked also got both of their characters returned to them, so this confirms that admin is willing to return to folks who just want to cut their losses. Still a terrible situation, but at the very least there is indeed recourse outside of PayPal which is a relief.

For people who plan to file a ticket, make sure to check out the instructions on the @admin account! They're quite helpful for putting a case together.

cookibites

not sure if its been commented anywhere else on this bulletin but their vgen account has been suspended 👍

SUIT

Has there been a single confirmed cancelled chargeback at this point? :(

Really interesting to me how they are more concerned with posting a "psa response" then actually trying to undo the damage they've done

Moxxie

I have pretty much every single page open right now, and no, I haven't seen any.

Vossed

On Twitter they're more worried about begging people to take down their posts about the situation instead of actually canceling a single chargeback :/ No one who has been affected has been able to come forward and say that their chargeback was cancelled not even the one that was $1

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Hmm... Does this mean admin won't do anything unless we see them trying to conduct more business? 🤔 Or will admin do something if they don't cancel chargebacks within a certain period of time?

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princehoneytea

in a conversation with my friend, they never offered to cancel the chargeback and just said "sorry" until said friend asked directly for the cancellation. then they asked to be walked through the process step-by-step, even though it's their responsibility to figure that out, and then ghosted. it doesn't look like they've actually returned any money.

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SeidenKaczka

Could you share the adress they use for PayPal? They might just come back with another toyhouse name so we need to keep an eye for their PayPal adress!

mai

i've updated the post with more info, along with their other accounts and paypal address ^^

https://toyhou.se/slimeyflowers

It would be quite easy for them to add a secondary email to their paypal account and use that address instead, so it's important to be wary of who you're interacting with either way unfortunately

SAWVIDAE

I just figured out a way to block her full account here. It'll still fail if she creates a whole new Paypal account, but at least you'll be unable to do any transactions with the same account in the post regardless of any secondary email addresses she may add.

mai

ive been out being busy all day, but ive been periodically reading all comments, updates and pms being sent to me.
im upset at how much larger this situation turned out to be.

since this bulletin is being shared around, ill do my best to tidy it up and add more important information.

NG09

howdy hi! do I share their fb too? I'm scared it shares their irl name but they've been MASS BUYING from over there too ;;

aux

if it's ok for me to chime in--
if you have access to the FB groups where they've been mass buying and are able to share links to the TH PSAs or this bulletin, that would probably be helpful to the sellers on that platform! (if PSAs are allowed there)

but based on what's been shared so far in these threads I'm under the impression most of Sheller's transactions with TH users happened on TH/discord/ko-fi, so it may not be hugely impactful to TH users for something as privacy-risky as sheller's FB to be made public knowledge on TH. while I do think there's merit to including all accounts used for chargeback scamming (presumably including FB) in a beware, I think your caution towards publicizing their private irl info is very justified under the circumstances.

FB sellers should absolutely be told, but if TH users aren't really at risk of being scammed on FB then I think informing FB separately might be the safest way to navigate that privacy risk right now

NG09

I've put up a beware on them on a TH user FB group ! They frequent there a lot to get new designs ^^

other than that ty and I understand! I just worry because majority of the groups they do trades in are filled w TH folks ;;

aux

Ooo thank you so much, I had no idea there were TH-focused/etc group spaces there! That’s definitely a good call and hopefully will help more people navigate this or avoid future issues!

NG09

just asking if this could possibly be an alt or..?

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edit: I retract my statement this is on me for misunderstanding, slimey isn't an alt & I'm very sorry for spreading misinfo! slimey has linked a new bulletin detailing their experience with sheller I highly recommend reading it over

slimeyflowers

hey yah im sorry i did that. it was a kneejerk reaction, in trying to give back funding to the original account I did something I couldn't take back. I had initially considered what I was doing was okay, I'm the kind of person that wants to immediately "fix problems" without considering to critical think about it first. I saw the absolute carnage that had happened afterwards. Everything happened so fast. Seeing feedback commentary about this behavior made me realize that this was enabling.

It's okay to think what I did was sus, IT WAS!

I'm pretty sure I have effectively burnt my bridge with @shellteller after updating publicly about my private pledges for them to reverse paypal charge backs.

To add context to why my account came back 4 days ago: I'm not much of an adoptable or character trader. I originally came on TH when it was newer and wanted to try out adoptables. I quickly fell out when I realized it just wasn't for me. I prefer twitter and youtube far more.

I admit that I did re-open my account because of that purchase. It was later I saw all the bulletins and forums, this is where I realized what had actually happened and that pissed me off. Anyways sorry that happened. Hope that explains more into this.

ohhh I see, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain & being so transparent abt everything : ) I sincerely apologize for my misunderstanding & take full responsibility for spreading misinfo then. this whole situation is just so crazy, I hope everything is resolved as soon as possible. I'm sorry you got dragged into all this, it's unfair and I hope more ppl read your bulletin edit: I'd also like to note that I hope my comment didn't come off as hostile, I was just very confused & you nor sheller don't deserve the harassment you've been receiving. I've seen many nasty comments towards both you and sheller despite the anti harassment notes in the PSAs, ts is so unnecessary & unprofessional. wishing you healing from this!

slimeyflowers

of course! i'm a little too honest in my opinion but it helps here. it's all good! personally i think it's smart to make critical decisions and take safety measures. truly i get it, there isn't a lot to go off of and you needed come up with something to fill in the gap.

What I will say is, I'm stepping away from this a bit. I did my part and now it's up to everyone that got messed with to get their money back (im sorry im not that well versed with charge backs)

For the character I'm still considering what I'll do, I think I should start with what the rules are with it. Gotta make sure I don't disrespect the designer's wishes.

I'm glad to hear that & you deserve a break, it's not ur responsibility to apologize for their actions & damage control for them. I wish no ill will towards gill & I fully believe the chargebacks are their mother's doing, but I hope they do the right thing & take responsibility. your bulletin has cleared up a lot of this situation for me so I greatly appreciate it, best of luck and take care of urself

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Sinner

What is the discord ID of this user so we can protect personal and art servers? mai

teethviscera

135166996366098432

Sinner

Thank you!

spxiledmilk

Anyone else notice how they claim theyre in their 20s but are now saying their phone was confiscated by their mom?? And why would the mom know to email u guys in the beginning? Idk everything seems so fishy to me

ottermeal

im getting the feeling that they deal with extreme mental health issues and that could be why their mom took their phone, trying to get them to focus on themself and a break from the situation but yeah idk it seems very strange regardless 😭 they need to be accountable

break

not defending them but just because ur in ur 20s doesnt mean ur free from living with abusive parents

spxiledmilk

Thats fair, im just not too sure if thats the situation were dealing with here, but its a very valid point that u and ottermeal made

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allegedly it's a situation of their mom abusing their finances which would make sense if they weren't being horrible to ppl on twitter about cancelling the disputes & even saying they are 8k in debt yet still actively buying ocs and art...hm...on top of that begging people to take down their tweets instead of just working on cancelling the disputes... strange

https://twitter.com/katarucia/status/1760308417464254694?t=J2lpEy09IwcBd6mgGDmUEA&s=19

like even on top of that w benefit of the doubt you have to realize 3k worth of $ was stolen and they were also still actively selling ocs so.... apparently also their friend is vouching about the mom abusing finances but so much stuff still doesnt add up 🐈

5 Replies

nacreous_eclipse

8k in debt and buying 3k worth of commissions? This is just irresponsible at this point.

Kom

i never see this person but i alredy block all of their acc sadly some on my mutuals n friends are affect in some range : (

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I NOTICED THAT and was going to say something but I didn't wanna come off like I was accusing anyone of anything... It just feels really disingenuous and shady. At least you made your money back though, I guess? But still, hrm. Really does just feel super off to me personally.

nacreous_eclipse

Watch if they trade it back to jodoras.

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atllas

Most recent update from their twitter:

edelgard

tsk this is so annoying... two of my friends got hit by this guy and it's really pissing me off. this needs to be a reminder to everyone in this community that you should not spend money you don't have. i want to say i cant believe this but their spending habits say it all. considering how often they asked for more time on payments and how often they would turn around to sell characters among other things just screams of someone way over their head. really, though they need to think about how their actions effect others, even disregarding these goddamn chargebacks. this isn't some small amount of money and i hope they realize the weight of what they've done. for all the artists that have been commissioned and subsequently charged back by them, i wish you a slightly longer blacklist :)

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edelgard

It really is and yea. I am aware of the situation as I was warning one of my buddies not to accept their offer due to behavior I'd witnessed from them ;_;...

I hope they realize that, even if it was their mom, the threat that this could possibly happen again is not something that artist should have to worry about and if it somehow miraculously turns out that's true they need to accept that.

MANTISPIRE

The user is responding in very strange ways to people on Twitter at the moment - I do feel like if there is a parent involved that someone should be getting them help because this is concerning behavior even on top of all of the fraud ---- https://imgur.com/a/pzfc9W7

Cold

Seeing these replies it's harder to believe that this is all their "mom's" doing seems like they're digging themselves a whole it would all have been less shitty if they were just being truelly honest about it

beeqlass

i almost want to give them benefit of the doubt that their mom got into their stuff and chargebacked EVERY transaction bc i know my mom would but 3k is crazy and the msgs sent from their 'mom' feel off. idk :( im sorry to all those who lost money, from $1 to $500++ ; esp in this economy even $25 means so much ;;

randomslimer

The mom messages are probably fake. If the parent didn't want them buying art they would not allow it at all. And hating artists because of their disability just doesn't make sense to me. And the email itself has several typos and I doubt a parent would call the authorities because their child bought art unless they were truly insane.

beeqlass

thats super fair. it is possible though its definitely not an everyday thing but i agree that the typos, emails,, typing style seem VERY similar. would like to note i know my mom personally would do similar w my banking accounts/personal spending money because she tries to control my finances && thinks art is an irrational purchases. i do NOT have high hopes for them though esp w how rude they are responding to people on twt:(

edit; also they have spending issues. no matter what they are in the wrong and they need to look over their spending habits

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just popping in, nah in a lot of cases if you're severely mentally ill and cannot function on your own for the most part, legally parents will control many aspects of the child's life, ESPECIALLY finances. i am one of those cases but thankfully more or less handle everything on my own now and have legal independence :) however in this case given how based on a LOT of people claiming they have been commissones by the person for years and not once was the mom ever involved... i have my reservations on not believing the mom was ever involved unless they provide proof. if they were in a case like i described with mine, they never would've been able to spend such insane amounts on ocs. sounds more like intense spending gone wrong and now they're trying to save their own ass lmao

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2 Replies

They are also now responding to people on random psas on toyhouse :'[ As other users pointed out, if they can do that, surely they can resolve the paypal disputes their mother filed. Maybe they are? I'd love to hear a happier ending to this incident with how many artists are being affected right now.

Edit: They claim to be reversing the chargebacks!

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haha sure that was their mom im literally not buying it

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SUIT

This is the email I just got from them.

Screenshot_20240226-204119-518.png?ex=65

Cold

I hope it doesn't sound mean but this is such a lame excuse like yeah sure okay lord people will do anything but tell the truth

randomslimer

Agreed. And even if this is true it doesn't change anything. If they couldn't pay for it they shouldn't have bought it. What they need to do is start paying everyone back.

Cold

Exactly i really hope everyone can get their money back and this all fixed it's such an insanely scummy thing to do

NG09

honestly I'm (just me. the others DESERVE their money) fine without the money but they better give me my design back, someone is actually interested in them and I'd rather they be in safe hands.

Cold

Hope you can get your design back wish you the best!!

AlphaNerd

Just wanted to point out their email has typos same way the emails from their "mother" does. Blatant and embarrassing lies on their part it goes without saying that their mother likely never interjected in the first place, especially with their current bizarre behavior.

expalice

update, it seems they're preparing for a response soon?

image.png?ex=65efb27d&is=65dd3d7d&hm=26b

Kiyuxo

Made a bulletin to reshare this

Aaahgdfhsjsh people like that make me second guess being an artist 😭

https://toyhou.se/Sheller/characters/folder:2583310

just wanted to post this here after talking to @/suit-- i somehow did some digging and got access to sheller's pending folder. if anyone would like to warn the people as they are listed on the character profiles, especially the ones involving $, please do so so they can file chargebacks if they already sent money!

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aw i'm sorry ): praying the private buyer at the very least comes across the psa posts and finds you! though if the character you originally sold was for $, you may actually be able to get them transferred to you by toyhouse staff, as technically after all of this, any you sold to them ARE yours. they stole back the money and by default the ownership goes back to you!

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ofc! for the ones involving usd, reach out to th staff and send proof of them paying + chargeback on each oc, the psa links, etc. it should be plenty enough atp for them to get the ocs transferred back to you! this applies to everyone impacted as well who sold them an oc and got charged back. i wish you luck hun!!

also for the one that was traded away but you sold them originally to sheller, contact the new owner, you never know, most people will feel horrible and give the oc back to the rightful owner!

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amalgambite

mignyan species moderator here - just chiming in to let everybody who sees this know that we've been alerted of this issue and have taken action! as jodora has been active in our server ad channels as of late, we've decided to go ahead and ban them from the species so that they can't use our community spaces to continue to scam people o7

yoplait

i just realized this person tried to buy a character off me thank god i didn’t accept their offer and saw this post. I’m sorry to everyone who was effected by them . :/

everfree

Never dealt with this person but this is absolutely awful :( I made a bulletin sharing this one and the PSA thread, hopefully everyone gets their money back!

I’ve gotten a chargeback too, but it wasn’t paypal and it was a resale..people doing this so much is sad, maybe it’s easy to get away with. Thank you for the info.

if it was credit, please contact your bank and let them know whats happening and what they can do to help you! in most cases as long as you have proof your bank could open a case and contact the scammer's bank and such and say 'hey, your customer is lying, we want our client's money back' im sorry this happened to you and others :/

it was cashapp and it was a few days ago, the TH admin gave me the OC back and I gave them back to the original designer so IDK if that’s even possible for me to do that, or if I would bother. But maybe! Thank u sm for ur advice^^

ofc! as long as you got the item back from the transaction thats what matters most since they wouldve stolen money and the oc!! i dont know if cashapp does dispute stuff but its important to use paypal in the future unless you can be assured who ur buying from is trusted, but even if u dont, 100% call up ur bank a most r willing to investigate or dispute things for you :<

Yea! I was using paypal before anyway, it was my first transaction on CashApp too😭but I think I’ll limit digital monetary transactions from now on, buying or selling, just to be safe

That makes sense! I've used cashapp but i def only use it for artists w/ good reputation (esp if i can look up reviews on forums or mutuals have used them) but im so sorry this happened, def wise to air on caution for a while

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Thank u smm!! I think I’m just gonna be done with the whole thing tbh and just not use Cashapp anymore😭😭But it seems disputes/chargebacks are common sadly, though I get the impression that maybe paypal has more user protection

hi sorry to jump in here, i do recommend paypal! they are a bit better when it comes to buyer protection. heavily recommend to use goods & services for further protection, never use friends and family unless yknow. with friends and family. never use it for professional sales/commissions! i typically would only recommend cashapp for friends and family transactions too, they have little to no protection on disputes/chargebacks regarding sales and commissions. had someone buy an oc from me last year and they chargebacked on paypal and never saw that $35 again, cashapp representatives basically told me tough luck :/

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Grandpa47

bro gonna have to delete his account after this one 💀💀💀💀💀

SNES

They asked me last week for about $105 worth of commissions (An outfit redesign custom and a pixel art piece of the character with said outfit redesign) and they kept asking for even more commissions despite me not having started the ones I already "owed" them. The 105$ payment never went through despite supposedly paying with credit, which would've taken a day max to impact in my account. They money is still on hold. This sucks really bad because like many artists in this post I really needed that money to pay for things in real life, and while I fortunately wasn't hit with the chargaback yet, the fact it could happen in any moment is awful.
I hope everyone that was scammed gets their money back one way or another.

SUIT

If it's still on hold/pending its probably an echeck!

SNES

I see, thank you for letting me know! Sucks they lied like that and pretended to not know why the payment was pending lol

Damn, you too? Seems like just about every artist I follow has been having issues with this person. Funnily enough, they did the same thing to my friend that they did to you with constantly asking for more before what was agreed upon was even done... My whole friend group thought it was weird, but gave them the benefit of the doubt anyways. BIG mistake. Clearly they have some kind of major malfunction, I dunno. I really hope you can still get the money you need despite this! ;v;/

SNES

I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to your friend, no artist deserves to get hit with a chargeback or put on hold for their income :(( Even if this person has a lot going on, a lot of artists got hurt in the process and it's simply unacceptable, I'll manage with what I have and get some more work and I'll be fine, thank you for your concern Ori!

sigilistik

HEYY can you please send me their UUID (discord)? for the purpose of potentially banning them from servers i moderate :')

DEATHPACT

135166996366098432 for the raw user ID !

sigilistik

thx !

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Lossei

This is incredibly clearly a spending addiction gone very badly. They need help just as much as everyone else needs their money back. I hope this is the push that gets them that help - same as whales in gacha games and overspenders, it's an addiction and it needs assistance or it will happen again. The mildest empathy can be afforded to someone who has a problem so bad that they scammed ~3k out of people. I hope genuinely they get someone to help them and people here to have help to get the charge backs cleared. You shouldn't endorse harassment though.

jabberwocky

I definitely feel that they need some sort of help. Obviously we don't know the whole situation and what is going on with their home life, but still they stole 3k off of artists who likely relied on that money to afford bills and IRL life. I didn't see any harassing comments, but I'm pretty sure a couple of hurtful comments is not as big a deal as 3k loss in profit to multiple artists. I suppose it depends of the type / amount of harassment though - since I didn't see any of the comments I'm not exactly sure what the contents were.

But still, 3k is like - geez.

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Oppacify

Never heard of this person before but this is just awful :(

Reminded me of something similar that happened a few years ago where someone stole their fathers card and spent thousands of dollars on art and characters, and their father started charging people back :I

Hopefully paypal sides with everyone dealing with this rn :(

cradlingsongs

damn this makes me feel so stupid they asked me to claim a resell from Merric (because they were on mobile and didnt feel like doing so apparently)........... ugh. i hope everyone can win their case back.

i also had an active commission (custom) with them, which i thought was abit odd considering their financial situation :/// I haven't asked them to pay yet so i'm not affected with chargebacks but my heart goes out to everyone affected. this is really disappointing as they're a long-time client of mine. ik they have commed artists from crepe.cm as well- i hope those artists aren't getting the chargebacks ;;; i wish they could've gotten the help they needed before it all blew up like this :\

Merric

Update, email from PayPal: "An eCheck payment from was declined by the sender's bank. We will automatically try to process this payment again in 3 business days. It then usually takes 4-7 days for the money to be deposited into your account. Please do not ship items until you receive payment."

Obviously it is not gonna go thru

I can confirm that the transaction is pending

"There is an open dispute associated with this transaction."

It wont let me open a claim or anything

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Merric

this is horrible, I remember something like this happening a couple yrs back it's so disappointing this has occurred more than once. shared, it's sad so many of my mutuals are being affected by this, I hope everyone is compensated

manyface

i haven't been chargebacked but a few days ago sheller/jodora asked to buy an oc from me for $100.

not knowing about this stuff, i said sure, and then they said they'd send the money within 2 days which i thought was weird because i never said i do holds. anyway, a day passed, and they backed out of the sale, claiming that they thought about it but figured out that they'd use their other oc by the same designer more (which is also a bit strange).

nothing really happened and i feel lucky to have dodged a bullet, but their behaviour really just lines up with the rest of this.

my sincerest condolences to everyone who's been fucked over by sheller... i hope you all get your money back!!!

Holy shit, this person scammed my buddy Sanviento also! Filed a chargeback on a character recently sold to them. This is absolutely insane, I really hope that this person gets what's coming to them, and that Toyhouse at the very least can return any character sales back to the rightful owners. Would be really nice of PayPal to step in as well, but I'm honestly not holding my breath.

They could comment here about how much they were scammed! https://toyhou.se/~comments/32353801
Suit is currently tallying up how much money was collectively stolen from the community by them

https://toyhou.se/~bulletins/1746913.shellerjodora-calculator

I saw! I've sent them the link, though they're currently making their own bulletin as well at the moment. I do hope they add to it though, just so I can see how deep of a hole this person can dig for themselves.

jiwoong

hi guys i genuinely feel bad that is is happening to everyone 😭

i called paypal customer service and asked them what could be done (i said many friends was charged backed by the same person) and they told me that calling them is the best way to get immediate attention and getting everything back. The assistant at customer service i spoke with was Deg Racius in customer service and he was very nice and told me that if there's enough proof that the chargebacks can be revoked

jiwoong

personally i havent been charge back, nor have i been commissioned by them (thank god) but i hope everyone can get their money back 😭😭

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mitheal

i have not been hit yet but i'm practically waiting for it while i collect all the evidence on my end, and considering refunding them when im able to. thank goodness for this callout and i'm so sorry to everyone else who's been involved, this is even bigger than i even imagined

diatzk

I just saw this thread and was just about to ping you as I remember you getting sales from this account. hope all is well… it’s a little bit frightening how many people were affected. isn’t this like technically fraud?

can someone total up how much they’ve confirmed charged back because if it reaches over a certain dollar amount I feel like it reaches a level of potentially _{needing law enforcement needing to be involved.}

SUIT

^I'm keeping track of amounts that have been charged back/refunded here

diatzk

you are doing God‘s work rn

just looking at that total… in my state any ‘stolen’ amount of goods or money amounting to $2,000 or over is then considered a felony. this is just an insane amount of charge backs. not saying any amount would be justifiable, but I feel like this is literally just refund fraud but instead of DoorDash it’s dozens of small businesses/artists. wtf. I hope someone does contact authorities or something at this point..

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mitheal

omg i appreciate you thinking of me for this ToT

honestly from what i'm seeing from the amounts of so many of these artists it looks like it's in the thousands now which is genuine criminal levels of fraud if they manage to get away with it....i'm praying that this can be resolved in each artist's favor here because this is a REALLY dangerous situation to be in for a lot of people caught up in it

diatzk

my thoughts exactly ): I feel awful for everybody affected rn especially those with bills to pay

Chargeback fraud does exist! what they're doing (esp for the amount) is 100% enough to get them reported esp if they're chargebacking on completed transactions/without returning things, so far its 2k+ in chargebacks it seems (from suit's comment thread) and it def needs to be reported somehow via any means

Abandon3dRain

I would not refund them, because someone else they pulled this mom excuse for refunded them and then they charged back after meaning they doubled the money back, Wait for the potential chargeback then dispute with your evidence, At least that way if PayPal sides with them your not out double the money but just the one charge.

mitheal

yeah you raise a very good point, i may just have to end up waiting for the chargeback if it comes because i don't want to risk being in debt when i have bills due in just 3 days. i have evidence collected and plan to provide proof of the commission i have started for them too, so i'm more than prepared. thank you so much for this!!

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Do you know if doing something like this would affect your ability to use paypal? Not that I even want to after hearing about all of this but it just seems like... a stuck between a rock and a hard place situation since most people operate through that platform. Ugh, this situation is horrible all around.

ik i’m not the person who posted but i’ve done disputes before involving paypal and my bank— the bank can do absolutely nothing depends on which bank you have after it’s usually been 30-160 days from the og transaction, but otherwise from paypal itself typical nothing messes with your account they will just hold your funds until the dispute is settled, though sometimes they don’t hold your funds and you can still make purchases, just highly recommend to keep money in your bank just in case. if you or someone was charge-backed by that loser, 100% call your bank AND call paypal, they will be more in your favor over phone majority of the time, especially your bank. they will often dispute the offender’s bank.

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if your paypl drops into the negatives because of the chargeback, first call paypal and inform them of the chargebacks, provide proof, etc. if they are able to assist, more than likely the negatives will turn more into a hold situation and if you win, the money returns to you (minus whatever fees get applied). if they are unable to return anything or fix the negatives at the moment, immediately move money from your bank into your paypal to avoid any further fees on paypal's behalf regarding negative balances (shitty i know, but hopefully it WILL go in your favor regardless based on how many people are impacted)

if you have money in your paypal currently and are NOT in the negatives, i would say transfer most to your bank regardless but only keep the amount chargedback in your paypal + an extra $25 if any fees occur just to be safe. in the meantime any sales or commissions you make, transfer all of those funds to your bank so any lingering amount doesnt somehow get sucked up from fees or any other issues that may occur, because frankly who knows when it comes to paypal. they typically are not the best with this. i suggest after calling with paypal, make your bank informed over all as well, especially if the chargeback somehow impacts your bank funds. if anyone else reads this, i am VERY heavy on everyone impacted to call paypal ASAP. they will work fast and assist you immediately if you call. do not wait on calling. the sooner the better so you guys aren't in hell.

if any chargebacks are over $100, do heed my advice carefully. hidden fees may occur and you really dont want hidden fees to pop up.

on top of this if anyone has been charged-back by sheller but other purchases by them havent, or if they have bought stuff from you but havent charged-back yet, if safety is an issue beyond this point i also recommend if the current chargebacks get resolved, deactivate your current paypal and make a new one. it should entirely prevent them from continuing this shitfest if others are waiting and nervous for it to hit them. don't refund them out of fear. please keep your money guys!

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HoneyTonezz

Thank you so much for making this post they DM'd me asking about one of my OC resells for ($100 USD) and if they could buy them! I got so scared when I saw this cause I told them that I was open to offers but after seeing this I immediately blocked them,,,

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HoneyTonezz

they contacted me on 13 Feb 2024, 3:56:09 am I will grab a screen shot when I get home

producer

god this is. SO. bad. my heart really goes out to everyone whos received a chargeback and seeing all the people in the comments whove been affected is making my head spin

i feel like no matter what excuse they may try to pull this is literally inexcusable behaviour and i really hope they see some sort of consequence.. generally i view paypal as very secure for sellers/artists but im not sure what theyd do in this situation 😭😭 this is so horrible

TheCollector

As someone who has been commissioned by them over the years, and last month too, waiting on that possible chargeback myself- as I also recieved the same message from them in DMs, a month later since I had completed their commission. I'm really distraught by how many people this has affected... I linked this thread up to my twt so people over there are well aware of this, here's hoping it can help spread this info around to a large audience ;;

NG09

got a chargeback of 20 for this design !! I'm gonna keep a close eye on it to get it back ;; but I don't know what to do..

make sure to dispute it with proof of transfer and explain what happened!paypal might do something if they get multiple reports

NG09

doing it rn! is it possible to just call them if ever? really sorry if my questions sound dumb- I've never been in a situation this stressful before..

yes they do have a number! just be insistent that you wanna speak to a person bc it a bot most of the time, file a claim first then talk to a person as well

https://x.com/ferretleaf/status/1762220338979475901?s=46&t=tH4uf-pGYNNQuveHJcN5zg

just got a chargeback too for 25 usd smh... i feel so bad for the ppl in the 100... please dispute them yall!! paypal might do something if they get multiple reports (they hid the design i sold as well what a coward)

stitchmaw

this is awful, thank you so much for bringing this to light and I’m so sorry to any of the artists this person has effected :(

cowboie

I’ve never personally done business with this person so I’m not sure if this will be of any help but Ive had chargebacks happen before and in these cases I use an app called swift receipt!! it lets you make a receipt stating the goods were delivered and normally paypal will side with you if you send the receipt in!!

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Lossei

They've also been seen bidding on multiple things and even getting into the upper 400's before being unable to pay and respect the artists' tos of 24 hours no holds. and, been caught begging for donations in the same post as asking for a refund? They're severely unwell. I hope this spurs them onward to get help and everyone affected can get their funds back from this situation. :(

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sigilyph

This isn’t related to the chargebacks but I did notice a few weeks ago that they were attempting to sell the outfits of ocs they owned and were not selling (like… selling an oc’s outfit but not selling the oc in question) and it struck me as kind of odd? But I wasn’t sure if that was just a normal thing people do that I wasn’t familiar with so I didn’t question it at the time. This makes me look back at it and wonder tho

coolyote

that is super odd wtf? were the outfits just like pics from the internet or stuff they drew?

sigilyph

They were the outfits of adopts they had bought that had come with outfits, they weren’t outfits they had designed for characters

This is kind of confusing so I’m trying to figure out how to word it but it was like. Let’s say at one point they bought an oc wearing a tank top and shorts. A few weeks ago I saw the listing for that tank top and shorts as a purchasable outfit for an oc, but not including the character it was originally for. It struck me as rly weird

coolyote

thats actually super strange, ive never seen anyone do that before? perhaps it was an attempt to get funds (considering their past asking for donations) but yeah that’s super weird and not fair to the designers of the characters

Abandon3dRain

Them getting refunds and then charging back after the refunds reminds me of that common scam going around on like Venmo, cash app, etc. where the scammers “accidentally” send you 1k+ (in reality it never clears) and contact you to refund them and you send them the money back, then when it doesn’t clear your funds go into negatives and you have to pay the app to positive balance, etc.

It’s unfortunate they’ve already scammed so many people, hopefully those that can provide proof, PayPal sides with you all and removes the chargeback and gives your funds back, this is not okay

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Kaki_Khamin

Uh ?! Have you like proofs or something that can help you defend your case ?

coolyote

WHAT im so sorry this is crazy

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asogi

fwiw, they had posted this bulletin a couple days ago (which has since been deleted ) I just find it incredibly ironic with everything coming to light today. my best friend is one of the people hit by the chargebacks/refund demands, along with just generally having an unpleasant experience having them as a client, and to see the situation is at such a large scale already is just awful jodora_bulletin_by_fraidarius_dgyctt1-fu

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ryunosuke

hi hello this also happened to me! :’’D ive been havinf panic attacks all day because of this- luckily i managed to refund most of what they bought from me (with help from a friend T_T) but they filed a chargeback on me too. theyve also been difficukt to work with throughout the entire process (asked me to donate to them, asked me for a refund a week ago, etc)

edit: heres thread i made on it 😭

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Piqopi_

This just happened to me as well, they're charge backing me for $107 + $75 that's been on hold after I sold them an Evu design for a full resale

I have no idea if paypal will even help resolve them

SUIT

Adding this twitter thread here as well;

https://twitter.com/ferretleaf/status/1762220338979475901?t=qyCCqqgV3uP2y6D0V49xBQ

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SUIT

my jaw dropped seeing this lol. like theres no way.

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